Can You Support the Troops but Not the War?
Submitted by PaulRieckhoff on August 29, 2006 - 5:28pm.
Book Club: Wes Recommends | Iraq | Veterans & Military
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Troops Respond Featured Guest Writer Paul Rieckhoff |
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Can You Support the Troops but Not the War? 
Four years into the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and thirty-some years after Vietnam, this country is still wrestling with a relatively straightforward question: "Can you support the troops, but not the war?"
I've made my stance on the issue pretty clear. I think you can do both.
I write about this topic (and others having to do with the politics of the Iraq war) extensively in my new book, Chasing Ghosts.
Regardless of what you think of this war - right, wrong or indifferent - we all have a moral obligation to take care of the men and women who serve. When it comes to issues such as VA funding or adequate body armor, it's time to put ideological differences and partisan bickering aside and just get the job done. "Support the Troops" is not some jingoistic rallying cry, but rather a clear imperative that should be separate from your feelings for or against the war.
As an Iraq Vet, I have always been treated well by all Americans--whether they are for this war or not. And that is tremendous progress from where this country was during Vietnam. My generation of veterans have the Vietnam vets to thank for the warm welcomes we receive today. When Vietnam vets came home in the 60's and 70's, they faced second battle. They returned home to face a nation filled with frustration and anger about a war, that was directed at them personally. And that was wrong. Vietnam was not their fault. But over time, they worked hard and taught this country to separate the war from the warriors. It is one of the most important lessons America learned from Vietnam.
So what do some other veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan think about the same question? We put the question out to our member veterans. Here's a sampling of their responses from the IAVA blog:
Perry Jefferies served as a First Sergeant in Iraq:
"I think so, but this question has become a minefield set for political purposes and tends to engender more acrimony than support for anything...I think that often neither side has really thought through what they are saying."
Marissa Sousa spent a year in Iraq as a Staff Sergeant in a tank unit:
"Supporting the troops is as American as apple pie, or as baseball. I think the best supporter is the one that questions why the troops are sacrificing their lives, their buddies, and their families, to fight. The best supporter is the one that understands the troops, and fights for their rights both on the ground and on their return."
Monroe Mann is an actor and National Guard Soldier who returned last year after a year in Iraq:
"I think it is completely possible to be against the war, but support the troops...None of the troops decided of their own volition to start the war. They were simply doing a job. I think most Americans realize this."
Ray Kimball served as an Army Captain in Operation Iraqi Freedom, and mentions Cher, Henry Rollins and others who break the stereotype:
"It seems contradictory, but I say yes - you can be against the war, and still support the troops. 'Support' doesn't mean a bumper sticker, and it doesn't mean an endless litany of praises and recitation of the virtues of those in uniform. It means real, concrete actions to support those tasked with carrying out a dirty and difficult task."
Keith Klewe served in Afghanistan, and had this to say:
"I'm 100% for the troops, whether they are U.S. troops, Coalition troops or Iraqi and Afghan troops. I'm all for fighting for something you believe in. I believe in the individual motivation of all soldiers to do the right thing, support their country, make things better. At the same time, I'm 100% against war with no objective."
You can learn more about Keith and all the other IAVA bloggers here.
What do you think? Can you support the troops without supporting the war? Or do you think that by supporting the troops you are supporting the Bush doctrine and prolonging the war in Iraq? Sound off here on the discussion board. I'll be checking in from time to time to and adding comments where I can.
that I can support our troops and be against this war.
And THANK YOU, Paul, for putting your life on the line for US and for coming over to blog with us today!
I was only a teenager when VN ended, so don't have first-hand experience of how our soldiers were treated when they came home, but I read somewhere (this may be the link, can't be sure) that the anti-troop sentiment after VN was a media myth.
I can't imagine that those protesting VN would have turned and blamed it on the soldiers, as many of those soldiers were protestors before being drafted! It just doesn't make sense, and I wonder if there is any truth to the long-repeated myth of the spat-upon returning VN vet?
Myth Making and Spitting Images from Vietnam
~ snip ~
More important, however, is that the charge is simply not rooted in reality. It is both unfair to Senator Kerry and to the Vietnam-era peace movement. The fact is, there is absolutely no record of any peace activist taunting or spitting upon returning veterans. It is myth, and like most myths it is hard to dislodge.
In 1995 sociologist Thomas Beamish and his colleagues analyzed all peace movement-related stories from 1965 - 1971 in the NY Times, LA Times, and SF Chronicle (495 stories). They found no instance of any spitting on returned troops by peace movement members, nor any taunting. Indeed, they found few examples of negative demonstrations involving returning troops of any kind, or even of simple disapproval of returning soldiers. Three years later, sociologist Jerry Lembcke conducted a similarly exhaustive study for his book, The Spitting Image, with like results. He discovered war protesters being spat upon by war supporters, and hostile acts toward Vietnam veterans by conservative, pro-war groups like the VFW, but no taunting or spitting on returned veterans by peace movement members. Returned veterans and in-service GIs were welcomed in the peace movement, and many assumed leadership roles. Yet the myth endures
Cultural myths are often created in a collective fashion over time, as such they represent widely shared values in the group. But myth making is seldom divorced from the politics and power struggles that are always present in society. That is, some myths are created or perpetuated to serve the particular political interests of subgroups. Similarly, some general cultural myths may be reconstructed to serve special interests at the expense of the common good. Myths also help us deal with events that don't fit our world-view. How could a superpower be defeated by a small, "primitive" country? The spitting myth helps redirect that responsibility to an unsupportive peace movement at home...
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0318-12.htm
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right. - Hunter/Garcia
I don't think the question is about peace protesters, its the general public that was the problem. And obviously you don't have to spit on someone to show disapproval.
I was not a soldier, just a teacher along the Cambodian border for 5 years. I had to come home after 2 years for a visit (I'm not even sure any more who made up that rule!) but I only stayed 10 days, I couldn't take it. I was invited to all kinds of parties and gatherings but if I mentioned what was really happening in Viet Nam I was ignored. People didn't want to hear it. That's worse than being spit on. I suspect that those who served in the military have similar stories.
Barry
Are you safer today than you were five years ago?©
It's just impossible to know what happened without first-hand accounts. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right. - Hunter/Garcia
I guess that was my point. :)
You just know what some things are like without experiencing it yourself. I can't tell you what it was like for vets returning from Viet Nam and I'm that studies, no matter how carefully designed and well intentioned, just don't get it either.
But way back then I made the right choice so there's nothing to be sorry about.
Barry
Are you safer today than you were five years ago?©
Not a question, just a comment.
The TeeVee talking heads don't seem to believe that our soldiers are bright enough to understand the difference between policy disagreements and personal attacks.
Knowing a few real soldiers might change their minds. (Okay, we can dream, can't we?)
Thanks for everything you and IAVA are doing to make such a difference in the country. Thanks for being a leader!
Welcome Paul. It’s great to have you here.
I saw and spoke to you briefly at the Strand last week. You make quite an impression and I loved your book, tough to read in some places but that was only because of the subject matter. I found it very well written.
Also, it really does sound like you and your men were great representatives of our country when you were over there. It makes me proud that you’re American...and proud that you’re a NYer, too.
Can you support the troops but not the war? I certainly hope so. Sometimes I feel that the best way to support the troops is to speak out against this war...I do pray for their safety and their safe return soon and I hope for whatever success we can achieve at this point.
My question to you is, do the soldiers get upset when they hear of people protesting or speaking out against the war? Does it hurt morale or are they happy to have someone fighting for them...Or do they see it as folks abandoning them rather than fighting for them?
And another....
At the Strand Q&A you disagreed with a questioner who wanted to bring the troops home now. I believe General Clark would agree with your assessment of the situation and how it can actually get much worse than it is, how just pulling out now may not be the best answer from a choice of bad and worse answers.
Do you know how the soldiers that are over there now feel about this, about just withdrawing right now? Because you’ve got all of these people who think they are fighting for the troops by calling for immediate withdrawal....Do the actual troops agree with this or is that something they wouldn’t discuss?
Thanks again for all you are doing. You could have taken it easy when you got back but you didn't.
Oh and Johnny Cash’s cover of “Hurt” reduces me to tears too....
Carol
"The mark of leadership is not to standup when everybody is standing, but rather to actually stand up when no one else is standing" - Pulitzer Prize winning author Samantha Power, introducing Gen Clark
Hello everyone! It is an honor and a privilege to be here on CCN. I am thankful to Gen Clark, Kat and all the folks at WesPAC who helped set chat this up.
I hope you have all had a chance to check out my blog entry above and the sample chapter of my book. If not, check out www.ChasingGhosts.com. You can listen to the entire first chapter while we continue this conversation here.
Also, check out Gen Clark earlier today on Fox. He did a great job of pushing back against Cavuto on the issues I present in the blog above. Check out the interview here: http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/8217
Bluemoon! Thanks for the support--and for checking us out at Yearly Kos earlier this year. It was a great time--with excellent energy.
I am open to your questions. Let 'em fly!
really was excellent with Cavuto today....That Cavuto makes me as nuts as O'Rielly or Hannity though....
"The mark of leadership is not to standup when everybody is standing, but rather to actually stand up when no one else is standing" - Pulitzer Prize winning author Samantha Power, introducing Gen Clark
No matter how hard GWB and Co try to make it so.
Blue State of Mind
Mr. Reichoff,
First I would like to express my personal thanks for you strength and patriotism.
As criticism of the Iraq War, and the administration’s execution of it, grew over the past year, many Bush officials and supporters claim that those who do not agree with their policies, wish to “cut and run” from the war on terror.
Calling on your personal experience in Iraq, and the understood loss of hardware due to degradation, could our military be severely compromised if we are stuck in Iraq if/when another front opens in the war on terror? And do you believe that a strategic withdraw is a necessity considering today’s probable threats to American national security.
Thanks for the support folks.
Carol. Honestly, most of our troops in Iraq are not focused on the latest Iraq debate. They are focused on living and taking care of their buddies. They are worried about IEDs and RPGs. And if their wife or husband back home is going to leave them while they are gone.
The debate back home does not impact morale. That is a great untruth pushed by people like the President and Rumsfeld. The things above impact morale. Poor gear and body armor. The optempo impacts morale. A flawed strategy and unclear mission impact morale. Family life--that is the #1 issue impacting morale. Cindy Sheehan, Murtha and the rest really dont impact our bottom line day to day.
With regard to withdrawl, the troops understand, like Gen Clark, that we are really btw a rock and a hard place. There are no easy answers. The President has screwed things up in Iraq so badly that if we stay it will be bad, and if we leave it will be bad.
Thanks for the support folks.
Carol. Honestly, most of our troops in Iraq are not focused on the latest Iraq debate. They are focused on living and taking care of their buddies. They are worried about IEDs and RPGs. And if their wife or husband back home is going to leave them while they are gone.
The debate back home does not impact morale. That is a great untruth pushed by people like the President and Rumsfeld. The things above impact morale. Poor gear and body armor. The optempo impacts morale. A flawed strategy and unclear mission impact morale. Family life--that is the #1 issue impacting morale. Cindy Sheehan, Murtha and the rest really dont impact our bottom line day to day.
With regard to withdrawl, the troops understand, like Gen Clark, that we are really btw a rock and a hard place. There are no easy answers. The President has screwed things up in Iraq so badly that if we stay it will be bad, and if we leave it will be bad. That is the reality we understand.
Thanks for the support folks.
Carol. Honestly, most of our troops in Iraq are not focused on the latest Iraq debate. They are focused on living and taking care of their buddies. They are worried about IEDs and RPGs. And if their wife or husband back home is going to leave them while they are gone.
The debate back home does not impact morale. That is a great untruth pushed by people like the President and Rumsfeld. The things above impact morale. Poor gear and body armor. The optempo impacts morale. A flawed strategy and unclear mission impact morale. Family life--that is the #1 issue impacting morale. Cindy Sheehan, Murtha and the rest really dont impact our bottom line day to day.
With regard to withdrawl, the troops understand, like Gen Clark, that we are really btw a rock and a hard place. There are no easy answers. The President has screwed things up in Iraq so badly that if we stay it will be bad, and if we leave it will be bad. That is the reality we understand.
Mr. Reichoff,
First I would like to express my personal thanks for you strength and patriotism.
As criticism of the Iraq War, and the administration’s execution of it, grew over the past year, many Bush officials and supporters claim that those who do not agree with their policies, wish to “cut and run” from the war on terror.
Calling on your personal experience in Iraq, and the understood loss of hardware due to degradation, could our military be severely compromised if we are stuck in Iraq if/when another front opens in the war on terror? And do you believe that a strategic withdraw is a necessity considering today’s probable threats to American national security.
Sorry guys, my preview page got stuck.
Thanks for the support folks.
First off, I just talked to Kat. Seems like we are having some site problems. Hang in there and stick around. I am not going anywhere.
Carol. Honestly, most of our troops in Iraq are not focused on the latest Iraq debate. They are focused on living and taking care of their buddies. They are worried about IEDs and RPGs. And if their wife or husband back home is going to leave them while they are gone.
The debate back home does not impact morale. That is a great untruth pushed by people like the President and Rumsfeld. The things above impact morale. Poor gear and body armor. The optempo impacts morale. A flawed strategy and unclear mission impact morale. Family life--that is the #1 issue impacting morale. Cindy Sheehan, Murtha and the rest really dont impact our bottom line day to day.
With regard to withdrawl, the troops understand, like Gen Clark, that we are really btw a rock and a hard place. There are no easy answers. The President has screwed things up in Iraq so badly that if we stay it will be bad, and if we leave it will be bad. That is the reality we understand.
OK, a couple more...well, three actually....
1) This “Bring it on!” idiocy of Bush’s....I know you mentioned in the book how upsetting it was to you. And during the Clark ‘04 campaign, I heard a young man who had recently returned from Iraq speak at a Clark meetup about how, when his mother told him on a phone call that Bush had said that, he just wouldn’t believe it because no way a commander-in-chief would taunt the enemy that way with troops in the field. He had to have it confirmed by someone else before he would believe it and then he was very upset...That’s when he went looking for a candidate to support and found Wes Clark.
So, how did the rest of the guys feel when they heard? You know, the Bush supporters and such? Did it bother them? Because it REALLY bothered me, sitting here safe and sound in NYC. Or again is this something they didn't even really pay much attention to?
2) What is the best way we can help your organization, IAVA?
3)Through various online organizations, I’ve sent a number of care packages to soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan...baby wipes, chewing gum, books, etc, etc. Probably the best response I got was from a female soldier from Harlem. She was so jazzed, not by anything I sent, but just by the fact that the package had come from NYC...It was like a connection to home. So then I took a bunch of pictures around Harlem and the rest of Manhattan and sent them to her.
In your book, you talk about how much the guys appreciated the PlayStation games and issues of Playboy and Maxim....and music...Other than these great helmet upgrades from Operation Helmet, what, in your opinion, is the best, most appreciated thing(s) to get in a care package from a stranger when you’re over there?
Sorry, but I have lots of questions....I'll sit back and read now
Thanks again.
Hey everyone.
I just talked to Kat. Seems like we are having some site problems. Hang in there and stick around. I am not going anywhere.
Erik,
Thanks for backing us up. Opening up another front is exactly what I am most worried about. We are bogged down in Iraq. Too many eggs in one basket. It has hamstrung our ability to respond to threats ranging from N Korea to Afghanistan to Iran to Hurrican Katrina. Bush has consistently downplayed the degree our military is overextended. He continues to increase demand (more war)--without increasing supply (a larger Army). This is not a formula for success.
Increased demand met with decreased supply, extactly. You can't blame Americans who want us to pull out. But it must be stressed that such a move is not a sign of cowardess, but an intellegent strategic move concidering the circumstances. The real cowardly move would be to sacrifice our troops just to look strong in the newspapers and for domestic support.
Keep up the good fight, and damn the showboaters!
Thanks Paul.
Paul,
I am curious to know if soldiers are getting the support they need when they get home from Iraq. I haven't heard much about their experiences with the VA or other services. Do you have anything to share on this front?
Keep up the good work!
Ollie
P—
From a soldier’s perspective, give us several concrete examples of ways that we can support the troops? H
Hey everyone.
I just talked to Kat. Seems like we are having some site problems. Hang in there and stick around. I am not going anywhere.
Erik,
Thanks for backing us up. Opening up another front is exactly what I am most worried about. We are bogged down in Iraq. Too many eggs in one basket. It has hamstrung our ability to respond to threats ranging from N Korea to Afghanistan to Iran to Hurrican Katrina. Bush has consistently downplayed the degree our military is overextended. He continues to increase demand (more war)--without increasing supply (a larger Army). This is not a formula for success.
Sorry for the repeat posts. Looks like the site is pushing through now.
Glad you asked. Check out www.IAVA.org. We created this org to give folks a way to really support the troops.
No. America is not doing enough. Big issue #1. The VA is underfunded by 3 billion. That means not nearly enough money for issues ranging from Post Tram Stress Disorder to rehab for amputees. And another example of how Bush has failed to properly plan for the true demands of this war. An underfunded VA will impact all generations of vets. Not just recent ones.
And to top it all off. Check out our latest campaign here:http://www.iava.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1874&Itemid=105
Congress is trying to cut funding for care and treatment for brain injured troops by 50%! Please dont just get angry. Please get involved. Join our list here:http://www2.operationtruth.com/dia/organizationsORG/OpTruth/signUp.jsp?key=310&t=Take%20Action%20Template.dwt
in Paul's post - clickable:
And to top it all off. Check out our latest campaign HERE.
Congress is trying to cut funding for care and treatment for brain injured troops by 50%! Please dont just get angry. Please get involved. Join our list.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right. - Hunter/Garcia
I've sent a letter to the Reno paper -- the letter provided at the link offered excellent "talking points" to be able to create a short, to-the-point letter to the editor.
Excellent work and brilliant way to let everyone be involved no matter what!
Clarkies, it's the 1st link that says "check out our latest campaign." Really easy. Let's blanket the countrys newspapers with letters making everyone aware of this funding slash so that we can shame them into doing the right thing.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right. - Hunter/Garcia
Check out more ways here: http://iava.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=34
And other great orgs (including an excellent care package group) here:http://iava.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11&Itemid=37
Thanks!
Hello Paul. First of all, I want to express my heartfelt gratitude for your service to our country.
I only today received your book and admittedly skimmed a few chapters so I could participate here tonight, but have read 80% with gripping attention. Your truthfulness is a shining example of what journalism should be.
In your book you wrote you didn't know who canceled the mission to grab Al-Sadr. Have you ever found out and if not, do you have any suspicions?
"Some of them put on their cowboy boots and put their feet up on the desk." -Wes Clark
It is my duty. Important thing for people to remember, is that I am just one of many. IAVA thousands of vets nationwide who are involved and motivated. People like Gen Clark have shown us the way. A vietnam vet told me once, "Welcome home. Now it is time for you to really serve your country." He was right. And I am not the only one. Not even close.
now it's time for all of us to really serve our country...and Wes has helped show the way for vets and non-vets alike.
Not all of us are as articulate as you and the General. It's good that many voices can be heard through General Clark, you and others like you.
It was amazing that there was little mainstream news coverage and not much response from Congressionals, but the cut in brain injury funding when we're seeing so many troops return with life-changing catastrophic brain injuries is just beyond belief.
Thanks to you and other vets organizations for keeping the issue alive.
carol4clark
General Wes Clark * * * * 4 Stars Over Texas
Thanks for the question, Ruth.
I really have no idea who made the call. That was a decision made many levels above me and my unit. I would imagine a huge move that like might have to have been approved by someone in a suit in Washington.
There was a decision made to leave Al Sadr alone. I personally think that was a mistake. He has grown into a monsterous problem now. And is only growing larger. When I was there, he was just a minor cleric. And only about 31 years old. He has come a long way since then.
and sorry about the hiccups.
I've seen you on TV and I'm looking forward to reading your book. I appreciate your speaking out on behalf of our soldiers.
I'm an Army mom and of course I support the troops while questioning the morality and sanity of the policymakers who put them in the current situation.
We don't live in a world where we can do without a military that stands ready to defend us. Bless those who serve.
On the other hand, most of us don't expect them to be treated like George W. Bush's personal box of toy soldiers. Apparently the losses have not yet been severe enough that it has dawned on him that he can't just order up some replacements from Soldiers R Us.
I believe our troops are smart enough to know that most of us appreciate the job they do for us, and that we place the blame for this disaster squarely where it belongs, on the heads of the civilians calling the plays.
I know there are no easy answers now that we've opened this Pandora's box. But forgive me for wanting our kids back home in one piece more than I care about the Taj Mahal Bush is building as a monument to himself in Baghdad.
At the beginning of the Iraq War and under the glow of "Mission Accomplished" I saw an SUV with a bumper sticker "I support the troops more than you do."
only in Amerika under brainwashed skies...
We count on the troops to keep their word and protect our county...we owe it to our troops to keep them from harm's way unless it is the last option available...to protect our country and its citizens...
that's such an old bs line of course you can support the troops and not the Iraq war--look at how many of our guys are opting out for MORAL reasons, not as co's but as soldiers of conscience not being morally able to swallow the lies for justification---who would know better than those who have seen it firsthand?
Andzia for
Wes Clark Our American Patriot
hey! " andzia " is my mom! Took her one year & one day to make her first post! Only Paul R could change her from a lurker to a poster!!! :) Apple not falling far from tree, eh?! haha
Pilgrim,
To be honest, we were surprised too. Once congress gets back from their summer vacation next month, we plan to push hard on the issue. Be sure to get on our list and check www.IAVA.org for the latest. We will not let this go without a fight. No way.
How can one say they support the troops and not oppose the war?
Misuse and abuse of our troops doesn't equal support no matter what accusations Donald Rumsfeld makes.
When IAVA was first organized there were questions on the net about it being bipartisan. I understand that this is not a Democratic PAC, but how does that work? No. That makes no difference to my support of what you are doing, I'm just curious.
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
Not only is it incredibly informative, you really make the situations come alive. And so clearly relate the problems on the ground with the administration policy.
carol4clark
General Wes Clark * * * * 4 Stars Over Texas
Paul, clearly this president supports the troops in word only, not in deed. We Clark supporters do better here.
"Patriotism means to stand by the
countrytroops. It does not mean to stand by the President." -- President Theodore Roosevelt
No I do not support this ungodly war. Yes, of course I support our troops...always.
Thank you for your service, past and present, and future? What are your plans? (To keep fighting the good fight...my guess.)
may TR forgive me...
...but what about Iraq?
As many of you may know, I tried in 2004 to work with Kerry Campaign when I first got home from Iraq. That didnt work out--for a number of reasons that I write about in the book. Many folks have asked me about what really happened inside the Kerry Campaign. Here is an exclusive for CCN from Chapter 26 of Chasing Ghosts that gives you a little taste:
At one point Kerry asked us all who we thought he should choose as his running mate. A few in the room mentioned John McCain. Rumors had circulated in the press for weeks about secret meetings between Kerry and McCain. Getting McCain to abandon Bush to run as Kerry’s VP would change history. Together they could beat Bush. But Kerry made it clear the McCain option was not on the table.
One vet suggested Senator Cleland. Max is a hero and role model to every veteran. After losing three limbs in Vietnam from a grenade explosion, he ran for and won a seat in the Georgia state senate, and then became the youngest head of Veterans Affairs (VA) in history. An incredibly effective advocate for veterans, Max introduced America’s first Vet Centers, revolutionizing VA care by providing vets with peer-to-peer counseling led by older combat vets. Max went on to be elected to the U.S. Senate. He was a guy with the most mojo I had ever been around.
But Max wouldn’t be Kerry’s choice either. Instead, Kerry asked us about Dick Gephardt. Everyone reacted tepidly. Then I proposed Wes Clark, arguing that in times of war, Americans trust a General. Generals project strength, which Democrats seriously needed. And Clark would bring in the most Independents and Republicans.
I came back from Minneapolis sorely disillusioned and angry. John Kerry was not the passionate activist he had been thirty years ago. He seemed like a good man, but over the decades in Washington had morphed into a calculating and coached politician.
A few weeks later, ignoring our advice, Kerry chose Senator John Edwards. Politics as usual.
Campaigning that summer for election in 2004 – an election that would have an atomic-blast impact on the course of history – the Democrats did not have the foresight, or maybe the guts, to carve out a real policy on Iraq. After the initial flurry of media coverage following my radio speech, the Democratic leadership made a strategic decision not to focus on the Iraq war. They didn’t view it as a “winning issue.” There were no Iraq vets among Kerry’s inner circle of advisors, briefing him on the state of the war. We had tried to get through to him. We thought he’d appreciate what we had to say.
In the summer of 2004, a friend of mine, an impassioned Iraq vet, drove four hours to meet with the Veterans Outreach Coordinator for the Kerry campaign two days after he got home from Iraq. This guy had been stationed at Abu Ghraib, without proper body armor. When his mother bought him some real bulletproof armor on eBay and sent it to him in Iraq, the media got wind of the story and published a slew of articles about the under equipping of the military. So this soldier thought that the Kerry campaign would be happy to receive him.
But when he arrived at the Kerry HQ, the staffer said she didn’t have time to meet with him. He protested, and somehow a staffer “found” time to meet with him in the lobby. He gave her about a dozen articles from major media outlets talking about the body armor story, including one in which John Kerry himself talked about his family by name on the floor of the Senate. She said, “Don’t call me, we’ll call you,” and thanked him for his time. He said, “Can I see the HQ?” She said no, “for security reasons.” He told her he had a security clearance and had guarded members of al-Qaeda, but she said sorry, rules are rules.
Later he went to a press conference to defend Kerry from the Swift Boat Vets. Kerry’s cronies actually forbade him from speaking to the media, and they hid his famed body armor in a box under a table, telling him to stay on message!
Clearly, the John Kerry of 1971 never could’ve gotten in to see the John Kerry of 2004.
I realized then that I had no candidate and no party. Just as in Iraq, veterans back home were given limited resources, left to fend for themselves, and to make their own plans. A tremendous gap between the public and the truth existed in the national dialogue about Iraq, because the firsthand perspective, which only those on the ground could provide, was not being told.
and I anxiously look forward to the read.
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
Gen. Omar Bradley
In case you're wondering why no one has yet responded- we're all trying to breathe after taking that in. It may actually take several hours. I honestly can't type what I just said on an open blog...
Uh- You may not know what you're sticking your foot in here!!!
It is basically what we suspected. Or, "I" anyway- can't speak for the others.
We read today Max has sought out treatment for ptsd at Walter Reed- please relay to him our very very best wishes.
you speak for me. :x
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right. - Hunter/Garcia
And thanks for suggesting Wes as VP...Politics as usual, no doubt. The more I see of politics, the less I like. I wish we could get Wes elected without having to be involved in politics but I guess it doesn't work that way.
Your book really is great. It made me laugh. It made me cry. It made me think. There are some very moving passages and lines in there..You know, you relate everything so vividly, it caused me to have a dream the other night that I was in some dark alley in Iraq watching out for snipers...It was nice to wake up and find myself in NYC...Too bad we all can't wake up and find this whole thing just a bad dream.
It didn't seem so at the time but I'm convinced that Wes was blessed when Kerry didn't choose him. Truly blessed.
Thanks for sharing...your book, I've ordered two copies, one for myself, the other, a gift for a vet pal.
...but what about Iraq?
The difficulty that many Democrats have with talking about the war will always be that they voted for bush's blank check. To me that is "just politics" and will always be trumped by the truth. I guess I'm not a politican just an American who puts our country first.
BTW, I think Bremer called off the dogs on Sadr for political reasons. (source: Assassins' Gate) Bremer should be in jail. <---fails to support the troops.
Do you have knowledge about how screwed up the internal workings of the Pentagon are now? I've heard rumors that the promotions are increasingly political in Rumsfeld palace. Are we loosing the officer's corp?
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
"Clearly, the John Kerry of 1971 never could’ve gotten in to see the John Kerry of 2004."
So sad. But it reinforces what many of us felt vaguely but did not see so closely or so clearly.
carol4clark
General Wes Clark * * * * 4 Stars Over Texas
"Later he went to a press conference to defend Kerry from the Swift Boat Vets. Kerry’s cronies actually forbade him from speaking to the media, and they hid his famed body armor in a box under a table, telling him to stay on message!"
I simply have no response for that.
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
Gen. Omar Bradley
That's exactly how Kerry's people treated Clark supporters in my home town when Wes stepped out of the race.
I am not surprised by your Kerry information, however, it is very disturbing nonetheless to read what you've disclosed.
Truly there is a gap between the public and the truth in the national dialogue, which is why I hold the mainstream media guilty for much, and want them held accountable for much since September 11, 2001.
This vet being rebuffed and silenced by the Kerry Campaign just boggles the mind. But, I knew Kerry would lose when he didn't have the balls to choose Wes for VP. Wes would have brought in the independents and moderate republicans. Kerry was guided by losers...and now these same losers...listening to corporate media.... BELIEVE that Hillary will be our best chance to take back the presidency.
Impeach Cheney First!
Paul thanks for reminding us that Al Sadr was a minor bit player that we made into a shia rock star, from your viewpoint was there anything over in Iraq done right? Im not talking about our service people and their incredible service. some campaign, some act, basis of government building ....help me here
Andzia for
Wes Clark Our American Patriot
for what you've done and continue to do, Paul. We'll always be be here for you. God bless you. "Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
Gen. Omar Bradley
Donna Z,
Good question. IAVA is not a PAC or 527. IAVA is a 501 c3 non-profit. Just like the VVA or the VFW. We are non-partisan becuase we focus on issues--not candidates. Our membership is evenly split between Repubicans, Dems and Independents. We are all vets who are focussed on educating the public about the war and taking care of our own.
More details here.
We are often at odds with the Pres. Not because he is a republican, but because he is in charge. We hold both parties accountable. The truth should not be a partisan issue.
BTW, we are also tax deductible and welcome contributions of all sizes right here!
And it's nearly impossible to explain that to GOP partisans playing the Divide-and-Conquer game who keep yelling, "You are blinded to the truth by your hatred of Bush!" Yeah, right, I'm the one who's blind.
Thanks for the answer Paul.
and this:
We are often at odds with the Pres. Not because he is a republican, but because he is in charge. We hold both parties accountable. The truth should not be a partisan issue.
I'm with Susan (in occupied Ohio) on this one. This is where many of us are.
Susan,
They pay consultants big money from our tax dollars to think up lies like this. The art of "making shit" up doesn't come cheap, however, they haven't spent the first dollar on developing a plan for success.
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
well put and words to live by. I've got IAVA marked as a favorite now.
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
Gen. Omar Bradley
RFK Jr. has a good line in his presentation about the problems wrought by the environmental policies of this administration.
He says, "I'm not criticizing him because he's a Republican, I'm criticizing him because he's wrong."
carol4clark
General Wes Clark * * * * 4 Stars Over Texas
Hi Paul,
Thank you for your service to our country. I have always been patriotic but you should know that you are the reason I became so involved in veterans rights. I saw you on one of the first shows you did when you started optruth and knew that all of our veterans needed someone as clear headed and straight forward as you appeared. I've been a daily reader and supporter of IAVA ever since. Thank you for bringing the issues clearly to the forefront. I can't say that I thank you for all the mail I get from Senators now, but hey - tiny price to pay!
As far as being able to support the troops while being against the war, I have absolutely no doubt that it's possible. Real support comes from action we can take to make a real difference in how things are run. That is what a democracy is all about. We have a voice - we just have to use it. IAVA gives everyone their chance and it should be used to the fullest extent.
I sent an email to IAVA a few weeks ago regarding something at Ft. Campbell that I am trying to get some insight on how to help out with. I'm out of my league on this one. If you could contact me at
I would greatly appreciate it.
Again I want to thank you and all veterans for their great work and service.
Lisa
Louisville, KY
Wow. Thank you. People like you have kept us going. You are our lifeblood. Your energy is what makes people in DC listen to us.
An interesting note: almost 70% of our first year operations budget came from online donations. Average was under $40. Amazing and incredibly encouraging. Real people power.
Sorry we havent gotten back to you on your issue yet. I'll send an email to my staff right now and someone will contact you tomorrow.
Thanks again!
No need to apologize at all. Thanks for the help on it.
Just know that all of you are very much appreciated.
Every one of us should dig deep into the pockets for this cause. We have to stand up to DC and show these people who they work for. Paul is right that truth should not be a partisan issue. Ask someone in the military and they will say it's their duty to go when they are called (albeit called and called again and again is a stretch), but American citizens have an absolute duty to take care of our military whether they are in country or at home.
BTW Paul, your book is excellent. I am not quite to chapter 26 yet, but I'm very close.
Lisa
I have not read your book, but much you've said here is very impressive, and I will read it soon! I am also interested in IAVA, and want to do what I can for our veterans.
Its time for new leadership, and of course I will support General Clark if he runs in '08.
Q: Are you concerned with the lack of reporting by the mainstream media? Is there a campaign by Veterans to contact the media to tell them what is really going on, especially with regard to your own question, that we can support the troops and not the war?
if you contact our represenatives to tell them that it's possible to support the troops and not the war, through Veteran petitions, letters, etc.?
Paul, in your book you said you donated online to General Clark's 04 campaign. ^YEAH^ If he should run in 08 can we count on your support? Have you thought about what you'd do if it came down to Clark vs. McCain?
You don't have to answer this. I know it may not be a fair question.
"Some of them put on their cowboy boots and put their feet up on the desk." -Wes Clark
that lists how republicans and democrats vote on veterans issues both in the house and senate. If it is accurate, I don't see how any veteran can ever vote for a republican! If you get a chance, could you take a look at it? http://www.americansforsharedsacrifice.org/DAV_Ratings.htm
Thanks for bringing up the story about Max today, Bluemoon. He is an amazing man. And really one of my personal heroes.
Here is a link to the story in case you missed it.
Max is the most inspiring people I have ever met. I consider meeting him one of the best moments of my life. Really. I am honored today to be able to call him my friend.
He courage continues to amaze me. I am sure he is talking about his PTSD now in order to help others. Max lost three limbs in vietnam after a grenade explosion. He would tell me about going to Walter Reade to see wounded troops, then going downstairs to get his own treatment. Incredible.
Max knows, as I do, that approx one in five returning vIraq vets will suffer from PTSD. History is repeating itself.
And we all need to do more to help our vets become whole again. More on the issue here. Tell you kids about Max Cleland. He is an America hero most kids dont hear about in school.
Max is a real American hero...and, in spite of all he's been through, a real sweetheart as far as I can tell.
You keep good company. :)
"The mark of leadership is not to standup when everybody is standing, but rather to actually stand up when no one else is standing" - Pulitzer Prize winning author Samantha Power, introducing Gen Clark
Paul- Thank you. Max is a credit to the human race & a true true tru patriot, that's for sure! I have an uncle who is Vietnam vet & a triple amputee & so Max holds a profoundly special place in our hearts.
I also regard him as having borne the brunt, or the brutal beginnings- of the initial swiftboating, before it was called that- you know, the billboards depicting Max & Osama bin who? You know what I mean. Sickeningly, that's when "the gloves" came off. And just like when we didn't defend voting rights in Florida- when we didn't defend our vet in Georgia enough- look what came home to roost. The Purple Heart Band-Aid Gang.
If I write to IAVA, might it be possible to get info on how to get on Max's mailing list to be notified of events? I've googled for his office but can't find any contact info- he's been in my area (PA) twice but I only read about it afterwards in the paper. (I know about the Eric Massa- another great Fighting Dem! event coming up)
wow..love hurts but not as bad as truth...the image of
Kerry prancing out at the Democratic Convention....John Kerry reporting for duty!
a soldier 2 days back from Iraq with his ebay body armour trying his darndest to get the truth out ....and the decision of the Democratic party with the ghost of John Kerry of '71 faintly hovering in the backgroud like something from "Ghostbusters" lingering but invisible to all even the former host body...not to take the war on as a central issue in the campaign...Wes and Max not even seriously considered....Paul and people out here..on here --we have to get Wes on the ticket--it's bcome increasingly clear there are no other options.
Andzia for
Wes Clark Our American Patriot
msbehavinforclark, we have a full-time Director of Commo at IAVA who works daily to get IAVA vets in the media on a variety of issues. He is only one guy, but he works his tail off every day to get our voices heard. We have done a pretty good job so far. You can see all our recent media appearances here.
Now. Ruth, your question about Clark vs McCain is a good one. I have a new concept (call me crazy), what about Clark AND McCain? That is what I'd really like to see. They are two men who seem to truly understand the meaning of service. And both seem pretty fed up with the political status quo. That would be a winning ticket America could deal with, I think.
and I will look at everything on that link. Your Director of Commo does seem to be on the ball! ....But I must hold my tongue about McCain. :D
I won't say a word... LOL!
CNN did a story on McCain's age today. It's his 70th birthday. He'll be 72 in 2008. We've NEVER elected a President that old. And, not meaning to sound ageist about this, I think it's a form of elder abuse to put a guy in the White House at a time in his life when most other people are retiring from work.
I much prefer Clark/Sebelius (Gov of Kansas.) Her husband was JAG.
BTW, I was honored to see Pete Peterson speak (longest held POW 6 1/2 yrs.) Now that man has gone far beyond hero and has become a saint.
Have you ever met/seen him?
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
The Borg & John McCain
Bluemoon's picture
Submitted by Bluemoon on August 30, 2006 - 9:47am.
it's tough- we are hyper-informed politically & because of the ancient aura of "respect" around John McCain that has LONG since expired, some people may not realize the neocons have trained McCain to stand up on his hind legs & beg treats from BushInc's hand at will- that he is sort of a RINO, a Republican In Name Only & ala Lieberman, a Neocon apologist & enabler of the very worst sort- a glad-handing, pandering, abusee/survivor emulates & becomes teh abuser...
Particularly disgusting is his recent evangelical arse-kissing. If Paul understands the original hit that went out on Clelland, he can get up to speed on the machinations of the rightwing machine that ran over McCain & assimilated him, just like "the borg" from Star Trek!
Average (1 vote):
see individual ratings
I'll add one thing. I think that right now, Gen Clark is the only candidate from the Dem Party that has a realistic shot to beat McCain. In my opinion, no one else will even come close. No one.
Hey Paul, who found and/or chose the quotes at the head of each chapter in your book? Some really good ones there...
"The mark of leadership is not to standup when everybody is standing, but rather to actually stand up when no one else is standing" - Pulitzer Prize winning author Samantha Power, introducing Gen Clark
ktownsandy.
I have never seen that site before. DAV does very good rankings. Very reliable source and a great org. You can see more about it here.
all of the votes by party and listed by per cent. For example, 115 democrats voted 100 per cent for the veterans and 170 republicans voted for only 25 per cent of eight bills in 2005 and 2006. The best the republicans could do is one representative that voted at 75 percent. It is very striking presented the way it is shown.
Paul, I know this is redundant...but thanks to you and your comrades in arms for all you have done, and are still doing. As I noted in the review, there are very few books that have grabbed me by the neck and wouldn't let go. Your's ranks up there with Bill Broyles's and the Nurses from Vietnam...Joan Thomas and Shirley Menard. You are making a difference. A difference here. More importantly, a difference for your comrades in arms still in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thanks!...John
A false (and persistent) controversy... Of course, a resounding "yes." You can both support the troops & simultaneously oppose the war. If you REALLY support the troops in a rational manner, you might HAVE to oppose this particular war if you want to be able to look yourself in the eye.
People here have circled the wagon around the idea that dissent really is the highest form of patriotism & Wes Clark embodies that idea. He has walked the walk & talked the talk. It is a force so strong & so righteous it has kept us here, transfixed.
It's very hard for me to understand how the wider public believes the administration is really "supporting" the troops when it relied on demonstrably false "intelligence" to lead us into Iraq- and honestly, it just gets worse from there...
You would be hard pressed to find anyone here critical of the actual troops themselves, or even the job they are doing (I am not speaking of incidents like Haditha, etc.), but you will find the loyal opposition in spades, expressing strong views regarding the policies & lack of a strategy that brought us here, to the brink of disaster.
Also- there are two wars- or, is it three? Afghanistan- Iraq- War on Terror. How can one militarily win a war against a stateless enemy, or against an abstraction? We can't.
-You're a terrific, terrific writer- Hope you intend to do much, much more writing! Got to say hi at Yearly Kos- still think you are one of the best of the best at handling the media bullshit. :)