7/1/08 - General Wesley Clark on the Ed Schultz Show
Submitted by Kat on July 1, 2008 - 1:00pm.
| General Wesley Clark on The Ed Schultz Show |
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General Wesley Clark on The Ed Schultz Show
July 1, 2008
transcript by Reg NYC
Ed Schultz: 1-877-934-6833 Good to have you back with us here where America comes to talk, The Ed Schultz Show. Well, it all unfolded on, it all unfolded on Face The Nation with General Wesley Clark and Bob Schieffer. This is the exchange:
(dead air)
We'll get to it here in just a few moments. Let's go to General Wesley Clark joining us here on The Ed Schultz Show. General, good to have you with us.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Ed, thank you, and thank you for being such a stand-up guy yesterday in, in all this controversy.
Ed Schultz: You know, General, I, I don't, I don't know where the controversy is. I thought you were very clear on Meet The Press saying you were talking about experience on the job. That's how I took it.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, that's what I meant, and I think the controversy, someone asked me this morning on the MSNBC show, "Was this an orchestrated by- attack by Democrats." I'd say no.
Ed Schultz: Hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: The only orchestration was by the Republicans. I think that since John McCain's hired the, the Swift Boating team to protect his military record, they just decided they would launch a pre-emptive strike.
Ed Schultz: Clearly, they have taken your comments and turned it into an attack on Barack Obama and also of course, you know, I'm independent. I'm not on anybody's payroll but my own Ed Schultz Show payroll. I'm not connected with the Obama camp other than being a reporter and doing my own stuff as a talk show host. I don't have any special line to anybody. I was asked by the Democratic Party back in April to go warm up the crowd for 20 minutes. And we started talking about McCain, and I, I always thought he was a warmonger based on his Iraq policy. And so-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, he's certainly shown bad judgement, because he always sort of jumps and, and calls for the use of military force first, and you know as a military guy (chuckles) I'd like us to be called last after everything else has failed. Don't throw us in first.
Ed Schultz: Alright, here's the exchange you had with Bob Schieffer on Face The Nation:
(on tape)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in Air- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall.
Bob Schieffer: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be President.
(end tape)
Ed Schultz: Did you go too far, General Clark?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I mean, if someone asked you is the sun is shi- if the sun is shining, you said, 'Yes, the sun is shining,' you wouldn't have HAD to say that. You could've said, 'Well the sky's blue and there are no clouds,' but basically I just answered the question that was asked.
Ed Schultz: I thought you did too. Now-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And you know, that's the way I am. (chuckles) I'm going to answer the question usually the way it's asked, and that's straight talk, and that's what I believe in. And so, this is a manufactured controversy designed to sort of probe- this is like a, in the military sense, a, this is a reconnaissance attack. Someone's going in there to see if, if- how the Democratic Party's going to handle the national security issues. Because, believe me, John McCain's running on national security. He's claiming that having served in the Armed Forces somehow gives him superior judgement over Barack Obama. And what I'm trying to say is that, while I honor his service for having been a fighter pilot and been shot down and a courageous prisoner of war, that does not give him a claim to superior judgement in the Oval Office. In fact, if you look at what he said, his judgement's been pretty bad on some of the major issues.
Ed Schultz: One of them, the most recent, was that of the GI Bill, which was pushed by Freshman Senator from Virginia Jim Webb, signed by the President yesterday. And the President mistakenly gave John McCain credit for working on it when number one - He didn't vote on it. He never supported it. He's on record saying he didn't support it. And it's, it's amazing how they can twist the truth.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Exactly right. And you know, these, these ideas flash back so fast that so many of us in the American public who are working hard, we're taking care and- taking care of our families, we catch bits and snatches of the news., but we don't get it all. And so, it's really hard to keep up with the ebb and flow of this. So, you know, people don't always get the full picture. I think what happened in my exchange is that most people do not watch (chuckle) Face The Nation on Sunday. I mean, a m- million or two million or three million people do, but most people don't. And so, the Republican attack caught a lot of people unaware. People said, 'Well, he said he sh- you know, fighting a fighter plane and getting shot down. What do you mean he said that?' You know, it was just an answer to a question.
Ed Schultz: Sure.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And so, but I hope that the American public will understand the difference between service at a- honorable, courageous service as a soldier, sailor, airman, marine AND the judgement that it takes to be sitting in the Oval Office.
Ed Schultz: And that- i- is that the point you're trying to make that just because someone serves in the military doesn't make them qualified to be President of the United States? Is that-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, it doesn't necessarily mean they're better qualified on those kinds of decisions than someone who hasn't served. Some of our best wartime Presidents were people like Abraham Lincoln and, and Franklin Roosevelt.
Ed Schultz: How do you feel-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Abraham Lincoln served only as- a brief period of time in one of the Indian Wars, and, and Abraham- And, and, and Franklin Roosevelt had been, I think, Assistant Secretary of the Navy for a year or so. But these aren't military men, and yet they were admirable wartime Chiefs.
Ed Scultz: General Wesley Clark with us here on the Ed Schultz Show, former Supreme Allied Commander Europe of NATO from 1997-2000. How do you feel about being compared to the Swift Boat Vets?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think I got Swift Boated. (chuckles)
Ed Schults: (laughs)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I mean, there's no- not only did I figuratively get Swift Boated because people took something I said out of context, but I got literally Swift Boated because John McCain hired the Swift Boaters to go after me. I'm told this morning on a press call, they were making more comments about my military record now. I, I just want to say, you know, I, this is not about me. I'm trying to help the country. But I, I'm proud of my military record.
Ed Schultz: (laughs) I would say so! (laughs out loud)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And, and you know, I'm going to defend it. I hope I don't have to hire a bunch of Swift Boaters to help me defend my military record.
Ed Schultz: I, I, I'm astonished a- I think a lot of it comes from the fact that it's been a rough run the last several months for John McCain. He's not raising any money to speak of comparatively to Barack Obama. He's trailing in red states to Barack Obama. He clearly doesn't have the momentum. And they're, they're looking to manufacture this into a tight race. I thought you were very clear that you were talking about executive responsibility. Not everybody in the military are of, they're not all generals.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Exactly.
Ed Schultz: A-a-and when you talk about judgement, what, you know, where is John McCain? Well, his most recent judgement, his most recent judgement on military issues was to not support the GI Bill.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But he's also flip-flopped on the torture issue. I-I-I wouldn't have gone into Iraq the way we did. I thought it was an unnecessary war at the time. He was gung-ho for it. I-I always believe you should use all the elements of military power, sorry, of national power before you call on the military. He seems to like to rattle the saber. I think the comments that were made, I think it was in Iowa, where he was singing the ditty about 'bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran,' I think those kind of comments will come back to make it more difficult if he should become Commander in Chief-
Ed Schulz: Well-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -to muster the kind of support around the world we need should we ever have to take that terrible action. So, I think that, I-I-I think that it's a matter of judgement. I think Barack Obama has shown it. I don't think John McCain has.
Ed Schultz: And he also stood up on the stump and said, 'I'll take care of Iran.' Now, How do you take that comment? And he-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well-
Ed Schultz: (huff)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -I-I'm sure he meant that he, he said it so that the Iranians would tremble and quake and, and be more complacent for diplomacy, but on the other hand without a program for diplomacy that's just sort of saber-rattling.
Ed Schultz: How do you-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And saber-rattling basically it alienates our allies. It doesn't intimidate our enemies. It basically gives strength to some radical like Ahmadinejad. He wants to be threatened, because that raises his stature in Iranian domestic politics.
Ed Schultz: And taking a look at the Obama response, the Obama camp distancing themselves from your comment. Are, are you disappointed in that?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, you know, that's- I- I didn't have anything to do with the Obama camp on anything I said, Ed. They didn't discuss this with me. I been saying this for several different occasions but basically using my experience as a, as a former military guy to assess John McCain's relevancy of his military experience to the Oval Office, and I was asked to defend those remarks. It had nothing to do with the Obama campaign. So, that, that, that's my view on it.
Ed Schultz: In no way you were dissing his military service or his r-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely not.
Ed Schultz: Yeah.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I mean, i-if I were going to offer an apology, it would be to Barack Obama. I'm really sorry that the Republicans stirred this up in such a way as to try to take away from your speech on patriotism.
Ed Schultz: Sure.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But, but I didn't call it.
Ed Schultz: General, great to have you on. Any time I'm in the same paragraph with you, I'm in great company. (laughs)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you. Great to be with you, Ed.
Ed Schultz: You bet.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Bye.
Ed Schultz: General Wesley Clark with us. Here's my response on CNN last night about this whole ordeal:
(on tape)
Ed Schultz: The bottom line is that Wesley Clark, first of all, shouldn't have to clarify what he said. I'm disappointed in the Obama camp distancing themselves from it. This is about experience. This is about judgement. And if John McCain is a war hero, maybe we better ask the question, 'Why isn't he voting like one?' He voted against the GI Bill, which Bush signed today. Think about what happened. We got a Freshman Senator from Virginia Jim Webb getting the President of the United States to sign legislation and John McCain wasn't on board. Now, is that being a war hero? I don't think so.
(end tape)
Ed Schultz: And is it telling the truth from the Oval Office when George Bush yesterday at the signing gave credit to McCain for working on it!?! Cut me some slack!
yep...answering the question that's asked. What a concept! Did it during the debates, too. caused all sorts a problems. Thinking does that, lol.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
"Wes Clark is a man of whom you can ask a question, and he will look you directly in the eye, and give you the most truthful and complete answer you can imagine. You will know the absolute truth of the statement as well as the thought process behind the answer. You will have no doubt as to the intellect of the speaker and meaning of the answer to this question....So you can see, as a politician, he has a lot to learn."
"She hopes to open shadowed eyes on a different world...." Robert Smith, borrowed from Penelope Farmer
I am anxiously awaiting the day when Democrats defend Barack Obama on General Clark's web site.
It works both ways.
rejected what he said, I'm surprised that Clarkies didn't disembark Obama's bandwagon en masse.
Given that WKC is STILL trying to help Obama, you'd think he'd show some gratitude.
Oh, and BTW. In politics, the winner of the contest is ALWAYS expected to bend over backwards to enlist the supporters of their opponent. ALWAYS. Kerry's people pleaded with Clark grassroots leaders to join their team. If you were on the phone calls in 04, you know-- as inept as they were, Kerry's people did a lot of virtual groveling.
Obama doesn't seem to think it's important to reach out to grassroots supporters of the losing candidate. Ah, well.... it's a long time till November. Maybe he'll get to it.
it's apparently more important for some "Clarkies" to make sure O! stays up on that pedestal than it is to see our General treated with at least a little bit of respect. Pity. :(
"She hopes to open shadowed eyes on a different world...." Robert Smith, borrowed from Penelope Farmer
of course - that's just my opinion, lol
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
I haven't seen graciousness in a while, so I wouldn't know. :)
By the way, since I have you both here.
Look at the karma tables. It's no big deal for me, but a few have complained that people are going back into way past threads and troll rating people down.
I myself have lost 22 points during a week when I wasn't near a computer and posted nothing.
Someone has actually caught another in the act and found a few old posts with troll rating, but I leave it to your capable hands to put a stop to it, it's kinda weak. :)
be able to go through your comments and let Kat, and/or me know who it is who has dropped your rating. Then the person can be contacted. Please do this by email though - not by a post on the board - both as a gracious gesture and because a post might be missed easily.
And by the way - I was speaking of Wes being gracious, not me. I'm assuming you have seen him be gracious quite a lot - like, 90% of the time - right?
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
And it's of no consequence whether I have the ability to zero rate people, I rarely feel the need, so I'm not bothered. Though I do miss being able to post youtubes, but I wasn't sure if that was changed site-wide after the hack or if it's a result of karma.
Either way. I note that you guys keep an eye on these things, and it's not the first time someone brought it up publicly.
As you were. :)
Good idea. I maybe can get away with it since I wasn't in the two-way back-and-forth.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
Dave suggested adding the object and embed tags into the filtered html permissions, but since object and embed tags can be used to embed objects other than flash video, we're choosing not to do that.
The only thing you lose when you your karma falls below 3.0 (we lowered it from 3.5) is your ability to '0" rate.
downrated.
I have posted before that that kind of behavior won't be tolerated. Anyone caught doing it will lose their karma rating privileges.
I cannot act arbitrarily. I need evidence.
this week by accident.
Looking over an old post to try to find some graphic I had put up I found all these "after the fact" troll ratings, for totally innocuous posts... I mean TOTALLY!
And boy... gotta say I was surprised.
Since it started with me, I'd say several months ago, I have never been able to move the karma up despite all the generous uprates from kind Clarkies. That part is irrelevant. The bizarre behind the scenes troll rating is what I was most curious about.
If someone is doing that to you also, you'll probably just stumble across it one day while retrieving something old.
You don't seem to get where we are this week. This isn't about whether or not to jump on Obama's bandwagon or even support him. This week it's about Wesley Clark's honor and reputation. To us, that's orders of magnitude of a higher priority than what we do in August or November. There'll be plenty of time for that. Right now, we're involved in a rapid response drill.
If it becomes necessary to say negative things about Obama to maintain Gen. Clark's honor and reputation, then so be it. I was trying to take a baby step forward to moderate my views about Obama. Monday I took two giant steps backward, and now Obama is going to have to give me a nudge to get me to move forward again.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
and me, and a whole bunch of us of course, this isn't about Obama, it's about Wes...For others, apparently, not so much.
"She hopes to open shadowed eyes on a different world...." Robert Smith, borrowed from Penelope Farmer
And I understand that.
I was in the same boat yesterday, because there was wind in the sail for going after McCain, though there was little evidence of it here.
The problem is that it gave license for the Obama haters to come on back and it gave cover for more of the nonsense that we were on the verge of getting through in the post primary processes.
And so while I'd for sure give Bill Burton a black eye if he was standing near me yesterday, I have tried to understand the nature of the controversy rather than just throwing a fit.
Seeing and hearing General Clark talk about all of the issues surrounding the manufactured controversy, and how he agreed about where it created problems for Obama's campaign, not of General Clark's going of course, but the politicing of it. I'm back to where I was with Obama and his campaign, though I'd love to see Barack call Burton an idiot that kneejerked a response because he was going to lose his precious news cycle, I don't expect to see it.
I do however expect to see a lot more af General Clark going forward and I do expect to see a lot more support and coordination with Barack Obama's campaign.
Though I don't expect General Clark to be VP, never really did, despite the overwhelming reasons for him to be chosen, they always say that a VP is attack dog in chief. Well I think General Clark has shown his strength this week. And Barack Obama's campaign knows it. :)
a) it isn't that there was a lack of enthusiam for going after McCain on his abilities - it was that standing up for Wes was, and is, decidedly more important, then and now.
b)The problem is that it gave license for the Obama haters to come on back and it gave cover for more of the nonsense that we were on the verge of getting through in the post primary processes.
Westcott - CLARK Supporters are always welcome here, no matter which candidate they support. Despite the repeated comments of a few who recently began posting here again - there was never an objection to Obama supporters posting here - the only objection was to any suppoprter of any presidential candidate attacking Wes' choice (Clinton) on this site, or recruiting for their candidate, during the primary.
To be clear - no one had a problem with some asking why people here supported Clinton. They had a problem with posts proclaiming their candidate was better than her because...and inserting the rightwing bullshit of the moment (and I think that's the first time I've ever even typed "rightwing"), and posting hatchet job pieces about her in an effort to recruit. They had a problem with the disrespect that showed to Wes on his board.
Is that true now that Wes has shown support for Obama - not really - and largely because his support is for the presumptive nominee. That that nominee happens to be Obama is probably beside the point.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
I'm actually less angry at Obama, simply because I frankly didn't expect any more, than I am at those for whom Wes worked his ass off to help get elected.
If it weren't for VoteVets, Jon Soltz specifically, and Lt. Gen. Gard - defending Wes right away - we'd be the only ones doing it, and we just don't get out to the mainstream of America quite as easily or loudly as those with constituencies, national reputations, or campaign platforms.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
....to do everything in their power to lie, smear, attack, or otherwise drag down the person that Gen. Clark is supporting, out there defending, and CONTINUES to defend and support.
...just the facts, sir.
Our complaints about Obama are all gleaned from his positions, pronouncements....or lack thereof. None of them are lies....unless Obama himself is lying.
He did indeed do a 180 on FISA
He did indeed do a 180 on public financing
He did indeed throw SS, UHC, MoveOn, Wes Clark, and many other progressive issues and people under the bus.
He is sucking up to ant-choice evangelicals.
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
Everything in their power!
Lies, smears, attacks, even recycling all the old right wing talking points anew. And then to keep it up for NINE long months... at Kos, at DU, and astoundingly even right HERE on his own site, while he's out in the ice and snow stumping, campaigning, defending, talking to veteran's groups, doing everything in his power to forward her campaign --
Oh... oops. Sorry.
You meant that other "person that Gen Clark is supporting"...
or at least not had his campaign spokesperson "reject" him, every Clark supporter here would be singing his praises.
Obama missed a golden opportunity -- all in the name of not making the right wing angry.
Sad, that.
How do you know that Sen. Obama "had" that spokesperson reject him??
Sen. Obama's comments since then have been more backing up Gen. Clark than a continued rejection. The feeling I get (and yes, I wrote the campaign to protest that spokesperson's comments), is that the spokesperson was pissed because he thought that Gen. Clark got "off message", but that opinion was not shared by Sen. Obama.
(That being said, I don't agree with the "inartful" comment, but that's far different that Sen. Obama saying personally "I reject Gen. Clark's comment" or "Gen. Clark does owe Sen. McCain an apology". He said neither, and in effect, told the media "this is a non-issue. Don't you have anything more important to ask??")
on Wes's behalf.
But to your first question: "How do you know that Sen. Obama "had" that spokesperson reject him??"
Because NO campaign spokesman worth his salt (and Bill Burton is a consummate professional spokesperson) EVER.... let me repeat EVER... says things like this off the cuff.
Having been on staffs of Congressmen (and Senators) both in campaigns and during legislative periods, the very first rule you learn is NEVER talk to the press unless you (and your statements) are completely vetted by the campaign.
Burton is not an amateur..... neither is the O campaign incompetent.... It was a deliberate rejection, delivered by their most 'powerful' spokesperson -- their go-to guy.
Believe me, the campaign's message (as repeated by Gibbs and Axelrod on Monday and Tuesday) was exactly as Burton said.
Obama began to soften his 'rejection' only after every single progressive blog site (and many of his own supporters, including you) called him to task for his statement.
to Obama saying personally that he rejects the General's comment?
This was the question asked Monday by a reporter from ABC’s Kansas City affiliate, KMBC: "Yesterday Wesley Clark, on ‘Face the Nation,’ said because John McCain got shot down that doesn't make him a leader. That seems to be violating the very rule you talked about today about questioning the military service of anybody."
Obama's answer: "Well, which is why I was very clear that General Clark's remarks don't reflect my beliefs. I have consistently said that John McCain is a genuine American hero and his service deserves to be honored."
Grrr! This whole thing makes me angrier and angrier the more I read. Where did Wes say that McCain wasn't a genuine American hero whose service deserves to be honored? Why does Obama go along with that mischaracterization of Wes' words? Has Obama come out and said anything, anything at all in all of this, about Wes' honorable service, anything to vouch for his integrity and honor? Anything????? If so, please provide the link because I've missed it in all of this mess.
And then there's this:
"I don’t think that General Clark you know had the same intent as the Swift Boat ads that we saw four years ago -- I reject that analogy," Obama said.
What the F*$K kind of tepid answer is that?!?!? He doesn't think that Wes had the same intent as the swiftboaters?!??!?! Ay carrumba! There is nothing remotely like what the swiftboaters did anywhere in Wes' remarks ever. Wes is the one being swiftboated here and Obama and his 'new politics' campaign are helping it happen.
Good for you that this doesn't outrage or bother you as much as I but I am obviously far enough removed from caring what happens what happens to Obama and his campaign at this point to be totally outraged by this shabby treatment of Wes!
"She hopes to open shadowed eyes on a different world...." Robert Smith, borrowed from Penelope Farmer
Then attacking him for saying something that was completely accurate - which also benefitted Obama directly - is dispicable.
And btw - when I say attacking him, I mean through Burton's comments, as well as his own dismissiveness that the whole thing just wasn't important, and "aren't there more important questions you want to ask me?".
Not standing up and defending him openly is tacit approval of the attacks.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Treating the people who are on your side like crap while sucking up to the people who will never be on your side.
That's Obama's (and very often the Democratic Party's) Achilles' heel.
at every appearance.
Now, General Clark could do just fine pursuing his original goals.
Retirement, making a few dollars as an investment banker, teaching at University, playing some golf.
But he didn't do that, he isn't doing that.
He's supporting Barack Obama, as well as candidates for Congress.
I'm surprised to see your suggestion that General Clark is somehow a typical politico doing what typical politicos ALWAYS do.
Because General Clark is far better than that. And General Clark supports Barack Obama on principle.
Hmm. Since I've logged a few miles as a Clarkie since 03, I'll share my theories about this with you.
1. Wes Clark took an oath a little something like this:
I (insert name), having been appointed a (insert rank) in the U.S. Army under the conditions indicated in this document, do accept such appointment and do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me God.
I believe it is still in effect.
2. Wes Clark supports the Democratic Party & the Democratic Party's platform.
There may or may not be anything else. Wes has identified & recruited innumerable people for leadership positions- it can be fairly said he wrote the book on it.
Take a trip down Memory Lane with me & recall the effusive praise for Edwards last round- best that could be said was that he was a quick study & team player, if I recall. Next look up damning with faint praise. Everyone is trying to work with what they've got & pickings are rather slim.
Wes is offering his assistance. He seems to relish going after McCain like nobody's business. I would take it for what it's worth but the wagon round here carries a Clark standard, not a fake presidential seal.
Mind the first step. It's a doozy.
More matter with less art. -Queen Gertrude to Polonius, Hamlet Act II Scene II
:)
I'm also working on getting Barack Obama elected President of the United States, as is General Clark. Which is nice.
Missed you on Round One.
That one lasted 9 months. Grueling.
You get off easy on Round Two, the playoffs, by doing only half the time... 5 short months. :)
All I know is ...the view from the bunker says - you'd better be working real hard on that unity thing if you want to get him elected... Get to steppin'!
I'm looking at this post here, and looking at your downrating of it-- normally I would just shrug and move on... but if you've followed things around here lately - myself and several other long time Clark supporters have been recently "targeted" by some unfounded serial downratings ...
We have a really nice community-developed troll rating policy here at CCN - not sure you are familiar with it or not, but in case you're not, here's a snip of what we developed as a set of guidelines from the last incarnation of the blog improvement team. I'd encourage you to familiarize yourself with them as you use this site:
It IS bad form to rate a comment based on whether you agree with someone or not.
There are no 'blog police' except for the community itself. Trollish comments and malicious posts should expect to be low rated, but otherwise, 1's should be rare.
Rating comments is also a way to give kudos even when you don't have time to reply to a comment. We're a very friendly community, so don't be hesitant to reward the effort and insight other CCNers contribute to the discussion.
We take our ratings privileges here as just that... a privilege. I actually pushed hard for us to have this four star system as a kind of fun tribute to General Clark, and Kat diligently saw to it that it would be possible to install via the tech wizards and blog angels behind the screen. A community goal is to not only avoid "malicious posts" -- but to avoid gratuitous downrating of fellow Clarkies based solely on disagreement or differing points of view.
Something about dissent and patriotism.
I can't see Gen. Clark supporting or defending someone because he "has to" or "is forced to". It would be very easy for him to have sat back after the primaries and worked on downstream people.
But no. He's out there supporting the Democratic presidential nominee, doing what he can to get him selected. Nobody "forces" someone else to do that, much less someone who has shown themselves to be a leader of Wes Clark's ability.
It's sad to think some Clarkies have such a little opinion of Gen. Clark's independence and leadership skills that they think Gen. Clark could be forced into doing anything he didn't want to do or feel was in the best interests of this country.
....he has to support the eventual Dem nominee....no matter what his private feelings. The only other choice he has is to leave the party all together. He is waaaay too high profile to be able to just sit back, as you say. That would have been interpreted as a counter position......
On top of which he is an MSNBC analyst.
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
"He has to". Said like he has no choice in the matter. And the fact he IS high profile would make it more important if he felt that Sen. Obama wasn't be best choice in the general election and chose to sit out.
He could sit out - or if he felt he "had" to, do the bare minimum with an eye towards supporting the people downstream.
He's too high-profile and too active this campaign. That's not a "he has to", that's a "he wants to". Big difference.
I venture to guess that his concern for how McCain might misuse (think Iran) and further destroy Clark's beloved army outweighs his misgivings about the other choice. Remember, he chose Hillary first, not Obama.
LOL, the groveling was in person here. At our wake/celebration following Clark's withdrawal from the race, 9 days after Clark endorsed Kerry, two of the three co-chairs of Colorado for Kerry came to join us and ask...no, that's not right...BEG us damned near on bended knee to be their grassroots arm. On of the beggars was a former state senate president who is now my Congressman (Ed Perlmutter), and the other was a leader in the state senate. (The third co-chair was Gary Hart...his title was more or less honorary and didn't come.)
It was a great partnership.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
Obama is reaching out......unfortunately it isn't to traditional FDR Dems.
It's to the anti-choice evangelicals, the free traders, the telecoms, the insurance and energy companies.....in other words, the Bush supporters.
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
Oh yeah.... " It is a lot easier to keep a customer than find a new one."
"Customer" being Democrats of course. If the last general election is any measure, Obama will need all 18- million of his voters plus Clinton's 18+ million plus about 20+ million more to win in November.
Lukewarm comments from Obama about General Clark is no way to start with me.
...like an abused wife, we have no where else to go.
He may be in for a surprise.
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
Was the literal truth.
It's really much harder than that -- and B Clinton always knew better even though it made for a clever soundbite.
Democrats are difficult to herd.
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
And considering I'm not a Democrat - that would be a gift.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
No candidate/person deserves being defended just because they belong to the same group - they earn it because they are in the right.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
"The American people will trust the Democratic Party to defend America when they believe that Democrats will defend other Democrats"
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
I was glad that Ed was "disappointed in the Obama camp:"
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0806/30/ec.01.html
CNN ELECTION CENTER
Politics of Patriotism; McCain's Military Service
Aired June 30, 2008 - 20:00 ET
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: "Well, Ed, isn't it fair to say, of all things you're going to attack on, why go after something where he so clearly certainly has more experience than Obama and certainly more military experience, of all things?
ED SCHULTZ, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I think the statement tonight by General Clark clarifies, once again, we're talking about military executive experience. He hasn't had to make the tough decisions.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Yes, but Obama doesn't have that experience either.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHULTZ: Well, that's not dissing his military experience in any way, shape or form.
The bottom line is that Wesley Clark, first of all, shouldn't have to clarify what he said. I'm disappointed in the Obama camp distancing themselves from it. This is about experience. This is about judgment. And if John McCain is a war hero, maybe we better ask the question, why isn't he voting like one?
He voted against the G.I. Bill, which Bush signed today. Think about what happened. We have got a freshman senator from Virginia, Jim Webb, getting the president of the United States to sign legislation. And John McCain wasn't on board. Now, is that being a war hero? I don't think so..."
"If John McCain is a war hero... why isn't he voting like one?"
THAT'S one of the places this story should lead--McCain's opposition to the GI Bill.
...then someone at work came at me with the "oh, here's the supporter of the baby killer who, with his bombing campaign, killed 2,000 innocent civilians - the same man who's trashing a war hero's patriotism". Which is completely infuriating, but then I stopped and thought 'that's EXACTLY the point Wes was making!' That Wes, in his position - as CinC of the Kosovo operation has to face the consequences of the actions of the men under his command. McCain, who supported the Kosovo operation, faces NO consequences. And THAT'S the distinction Wes was trying to point out to Schieffer and others. So, if that's the argument the right wing wants to go with, then bring it on, but be prepared to counter the counterpoint.
Still, I can't stand the guy. imo - He was an attacking machine against Hillary for months. He pushed BO through the primaries. Disgusting.
I used be a board member of an organization that brought Schultz here for an appearance. I didn't deal with him directly, but people who did, such as driving for him and taking care of his needs, didn't enjoy the experience. They repeatedly used a term to indicate a particular orifice on the posterior of the human body.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
(snip)
Ed Schultz: "I would like to thank General Clark for his efforts to help bring the Ed Schultz Show to Armed Forces Radio Network. To have the support of one of the highest ranking military officers in the history of the country is an honor."
Tega, I agree. He was very hostile towards Hillary & President Clinton on the cable shows. Look what he said about Pres. Clinton on Hardball. It's pretty shocking!!
http://www.bigeddieradio.com/EdInTheNews/more.asp?ID=147
*Its only 1 min. in length - but Schultz says a mouthful in that short amount of time.
Wes saying "thank you for being such a stand up guy" to Schultz only proves how polished he is.
This sound clip shows brilliance, strength and honor.
Btw, I think you got swiftboated too General. Shame on them.
my father is so very proud of you.
Guess I am just curious to know why Bob Schieffer thinks getting shot down qualifies
McCain to be president. Would like to see Ed interview him!
as well as the converse--why is it important that Obama (or anybody else running for President) has NOT had that experience?
The context being one candidate graduated from the Naval Academy, flew 23 combat missions, got tortured for 5 years, the other was a a lawyer and a part-time state senator. It is our life experiences and how we handle difficult times that define us. I could see a 4-Star General making observations about another veterans qualification but it doesn't make Obama more qualified.
"People who founded this country...had strong beliefs, but they believed in reason, and dialogue, and civil discourse. We can't lose that in this country. We've got to get it back." - Wes Clark
Wes and Ed both did a great job of telling it like it is! This is a must listen for all Clark supporters!
Not backpedaling - continuing to say that McCain lacks the judgment to be the next commander-in-chief. Jim Webb just told McCain to settle down, and now the McCain camp says that Webb is dishonoring McCain. Webb and Clark are the best thing Obama has going for him - the only reason the Repubs are so out of sorts is that their myth of having the right take on national security is being taken away from them. I'm glad Clark continues to go on TV and set the record straight. The more Clark, the better.
I didn't catch the comment fully, but I think it was in the context of both Clark and McCain toning down the rhetoric of politicizing military service.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
I must be one of the last survivors of Countdown. Keith interviewed Webb last night. In a reference to John McCain's so-called anger about being questioned about his service (which, of course, Clark did not do), Webb said that McCain needs to realize that people do not serve in the armed services for political reasons, and that many in the military do not embrace McCain's political views. He said that McCain needs to calm down.
Tonight, Keith said that Clark did not question McCain's service in any way. Because of Webb's appearance on Countdown, McCain is making accusations that Webb and Clark are in some coordinated effort to demean him and criticize his military service. Webb sent out a statement that he had no such instructions from the Obama camp, and that he had not talked to Wesley Clark. Webb, like Clark, said the obvious - that he in no way criticized McCain's military record. Keith said that neither Webb nor Clark ever said anything negative about McCain's military service. On the other hand, McCain went out and got one of the Swiftboat guys to criticize Clark's military record.
On top of all that nonsense, Obama dispelled the media gaffe that he changed his speech on patriotism after Clark's comments. Andrea Mitchell told General Clark that the the speech was changed. Obama pointed out that the text Mitchell talked about was inserted over two weeks ago. How about that for egg in your face.
I've said before on this blog. The fact that Clark and Webb criticize McCain's judgment, despite an honorable military record, hits McCain where he is most vulnerable. And he knows it. If I were him, I would not want Clark and Webb to make that case against me. It looks like McCain pissed Webb off in his stupid statement about a false "concerted effort" against him, and I hope Webb fights back hard.
Thanks guitrock. I'll have to look for that statement. I usually get those when they come out, but must have been concentrating a little more on the Clark statement flap yesterday
McCain calls Obama and asks him to cut loose Wesley Clark.
just flashed on screen on MSNBC
I think it's up to Sen. Obama now to not only repudiate him, but to cut him loose," McCain said to a small group of reporters somewhere between Indianapolis, IN, and Cartagena, Colombia.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/07/mccain-obama-sh.html
Nick Kelly
Wes Clark could still secure America as a national security candidate.
would be because why? that Wes said he honored his service, he was a hero? or that he told the truth about him not being a better choice because he was shot down in a plane.............well, Senator O, you may as well just hand McLame the keys to the WH. You don't qualify for the job!
John McCain is right. Obama ought to cut the general loose and trust him to continue to tell America why McCain lacks the qualifications and judgment to be president. Don't hold back, Obama. Cut the general loose! Also, get Senator Webb in on this truthtelling mission. That's a winning team for you.
nt