Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:00:05 -0400
That's been clear all along.
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
well...the "leadership"....don't want those chops. That is quite apparent in who they "nominated". "zero-zero" FP/NS experience or acumen. They aren't running on that.
After 4 1/2 years of "Democrats are better on NS/FP than Repubs....their record shows that", "Democrats MUST be a full-service party", "I'll never let Democrats get caught flat footed on FP/NS again." etc, etc. The Democrats threw that under the bus when they "nominated" this guy.
Wes has said all along this election would be about NS/FP. He said all along it would be about Iran. He said all along he figured the repugs would chose McCain. Wes has said all along WE (Democrats) needed a nominee who had the strength and character and where-with-all and STARCH to be able to bring us out of Iraq the "right way" and work with others in the region.
He has said these things all along.
Wes is still trying to make the Democrats a "full-service" party. Wes said nothing wrong. He told the truth. The Democrats didn't give him a nominee with the qualifications to back up what Wes was saying. When he said the same things about McCain during his campaigning for Hillary. No one said a peep. Wes had experience and personal knowledge of Hillary to back it all up. Wes has nothing with this guy. Judgement. A weak argument the repubs could drive a truck through.
Wes is still trying because he knows how important it is to stop the PNAC pipe dream. But the Dems gave him "zero-zero" to work with.
Wes' 4 1/2 years of work were thrown under the bus when the "Dems" nominated this joke. O! just ran over him.
Now....I'm not going to argue these points with ANYONE. As I'm headed out. And those who want to give me the big goose eggs....go right ahead. They mean about as much as those "permanent records" in grade school. Not much.
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
Where's a cartoonist when you need her!
So many people powering O's bus (from the undercarriage) - it doesn't need wheels!
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Obama’s bottomless pit of capitulation just doesn’t end, does it?
(Slaps head)
Oh yeah, ’cause it’s bottomless!
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
at least I hope he does:
some in the media are starting to support Wes Clark. I wrote this today on the NATION's piece:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/1/134626/5767?new=true
the anger in me, as well. There's actually no hope for the media, but the funny thing is, if BO had just embraced what Wes was trying to say, this might have helped him appear to have some starch. Instead, he just came across as someone who chooses to run away from controversy. This is not a good trait for a presidential candidate to have, imho.
In fact, the more I see of BO, the less I like him.
Maybe (and I apologize to everyone here for this next bit, as I mean it in the political sense) Dems are so used to rolling over and playing dead when their integrity is questioned, they assumed Wes would too.
Well - that's a really, really b-a-d assumption!
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
What a nightmare. Give the public two Republicans to chose from and they'll chose the Republican every time.
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
What the hell is he doing. This is insane!!! Wonder if he told Rev Wright he would do this, if he would shut up!!:(
Oh where is the separation of Church and State!!! grrrrr
eom
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Still working on posting the appearances.... but you can keep track here:
I hope eventually, all the media appearances are posted here. Ariana has her daily post up talking about Obama running to the center. In comparing him to "New Coke," She's calling him "Obama Zero."
...of when we wondered how anyone could believe GWB in the run up to the war.....yet these same people have been taken in by the New Coke.
When do we get to say "I told you so?"
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
Although the cocaine pun is pretty cute.
But, anyway, New Coke was actually the formula for Diet Coke sweetened with real sweetener. See, the regular old Coke that people knew and loved was too bitter to be sweetened with artificial sweeteners that existed back in the 70's and 80's. So they came up with this other formula for Diet Coke. Then they tried to use that formula for all Coke.
NOW, fast forward a few decades, and they actually have artificial sweeteners that can handle the real Coke flavor formula and that has been released as Coke Zero.
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
I'm going to the gym...where I can make my back hurt instead!
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Unfortunately, "I told you so" is not very satisfying when people are dying. :(
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
:`(
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
That's funny about Ariana (BHO is our savior) Huffington.
They should have listened to us months ago.
another case of --
Buyer's Remorse.
No curative prescription is yet available. Symptoms however are treatable with psychotropic drugs.
That's funny.
Even for people who still want Obama to win, it's better that he take this heat now from his own, clean up his act, and move on with an implanted spine, than we let this crap slide and he gets hit with it from the right in October and he folds over then.
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
folding over later.
BTW, yesterday I found out what BOHICA means...... really... google it.
Hat tip to OUR Bohica for cleverness.
...to Bohica.
“No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self.” - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
I didn't mean to imply that it did. (It might immunize US, however.) I'd much rather be facing this attack on Wes now than in October. Of course, I'd have much rather not had to face it at all.
LOL! BOHICA!!! I love it!
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
keep those of us in offices posted with the outcome of these appearances! I'm especially interested in the Andrea Mitchell gig. Gee......I wonder what brilliant remark she'll come up with, this afternoon? I sure hope she doesn't call him "dumb" to his face!
Most of you don't know this, but I have actually been on the receiving end of Wes getting mad, and I think I might like to see that happen to Mitchell. (I'm not entirely sure it was a full-fledged Wes mad that I received, but it was still not something I'd like to do again...)
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
that she is a lady and won't treat her to the full Asman Smackdown, if she does get a bit too loose-lipped with her opinion of his remarks.
I'm not even 100% sure I know what happened. I was with a friend and she didn't really get it either.
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
in the initial flak from this nontraversy Clark has rebounded and is back on top in the voting at CQ politics.
"This is the third election in a row bashing Democrats on national security. But since this administration has been in office, we have had nothing BUT security problems. This administration wonít tell the American people the truth." -Wes Clark in Warren County, Iowa Sept. 30, 2006
November 7, 2003 – Wesley Clark, Jr., son of Democratic Presidential hopeful General Wesley Clark, said at a fundraising event last night, "President Bush has the 'Anti-Midas' Touch." He then ran down a list of examples of how President Bush's life offers example after example of him being given gold and turning it to shit.
The list included a number of businesses the President had previously been handed, which went into a nosedive after he was put in charge, "trading Sammy Sosa," and, of course, the economy and military prestige President Bush was handed when he took office, which he has since, said the young Clark, not done so well with.
"My father, on the other hand," said General Clark's son, "could take a... excuse the expression... shit sandwich and turn it to gold."
Reporting for duty: Wesley Clark
9/23/03 by David Hackworth
With Wesley Clark joining the Democratic presidential candidates, there are enough eager bodies pointed toward the White House to make up a rifle squad. This bunch of wannabes could make things increasingly hot for Dubya – as long as they don't blow each other away with friendly fire.
Since Clark tossed his steel pot into the inferno, I've been constantly asked, "Hack, what do you think of the general?"
For the record, I never served with Clark. But after spending three hours interviewing the man for Maxim's November issue, I'm impressed. He is insightful, he has his act together, he understands what makes national security tick – and he thinks on his feet somewhere around Mach 3. No big surprise, since he graduated first in his class from West Point, which puts him in the supersmart set with Robert E. Lee, Douglas MacArthur and Maxwell Taylor.
Clark was so brilliant, he was whisked off to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar and didn't get his boots into the Vietnam mud until well after his 1966 West Point class came close to achieving the academy record for the most Purple Hearts in any one war. When he finally got there, he took over a 1st Infantry Division rifle company and was badly wounded.
Lt. Gen. James Hollingsworth, one of our Army's most distinguished war heroes, says: "Clark took a burst of AK fire, but didn't stop fighting. He stayed on the field 'til his mission was accomplished and his boys were safe. He was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart. And he earned 'em."
It took months for Clark to get back in shape. He had the perfect excuse, but he didn't quit the Army to scale the corporate peaks as so many of our best and brightest did back then. Instead, he took a demoralized company of short-timers at Fort Knox who were suffering from a Vietnam hangover and made them the best on post – a major challenge in 1970 when our Army was teetering on the edge of anarchy. Then he stuck around to become one of the young Turks who forged the Green Machine into the magnificent sword Norman Schwarzkopf swung so skillfully during Round One of the Gulf War.
I asked Clark why he didn't turn in his bloody soldier suit for Armani and the big civvy dough that was definitely his for the asking.
His response: "I wanted to serve my country."
He says he now wants to lead America out of the darkness, shorten what promises to be the longest and nastiest war in our history and restore our eroding prestige around the world.
For sure, he'll be strong on defense. But with his high moral standards and because he knows where and how the game's played, there will probably be zero tolerance for either Pentagon porking or two-bit shenanigans.
No doubt he's made his share of enemies. He doesn't suffer fools easily and wouldn't have allowed the dilettantes who convinced Dubya to do Iraq to even cut the White House lawn. So he should prepare for a fair amount of dart-throwing from detractors he's ripped into during the past three decades.
Hey, I am one of those: I took a swing at Clark during the Kosovo campaign when I thought he screwed up the operation, and I called him a "Perfumed Prince." Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was wrong – the blame should have been worn by British timidity and William Cohen, U.S. SecDef at the time.
At the interview, Clark came along without the standard platoon of handlers and treated the little folks who poured the coffee and served the bacon and eggs with exactly the same respect and consideration he gave the biggies in the dining room like my colleague Larry King and Bob Tisch, the Regency Hotel's owner. An appealing common touch.
But if he wins the election, don't expect an Andrew Jackson field-soldier type. Clark's an intellectual, and his military career is more like Ike's – that of a staff guy and a brilliant high-level commander. Can he make tough decisions? Bet on it. Just like Ike did during his eight hard but prosperous years as president.
My first post about the man complained about
his message -- the "Stop the bickering, Let's
just all get along," message. I said then that
meant the Repubs would get their agenda, since
they don't compromise. Well, now it appears that
BO is not just going to cave to them, he's
actually going to make their agenda his agenda.
Anybody here believe in any of his fancy,
progressive legislative proposals anymore?? On
paper he sounds better than McCain, but when it
comes to real world actions, not so much.
He defended Wes, sort of.....lol
there's a video on yahoo
here's a link for Faux
to find out whether I should be happy with Rangel are you?
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
Obama Backs Expanded Government-Funded Faith Organizations
By Jonathan Weisman
Sen. Barack Obama will travel to a swing district of eastern Ohio this morning to propose strengthening the White House program extending assistance to faith-based and community social service organization while insisting those organization not discriminate against aid recipients.
Read the rest at:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/07/01/obama_backs_expanded_governmen.html
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
on her appearance a few moments ago.
Can someone help me find a transcript when it gets published?
You can just post a link here. I'd appreciate it.
The Democratic circular firing squad never ceases to amaze me.... but in this case O! shot himself in the foot.
Claire McCaskill is a pretty interesting figure
http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsummary.php?CID=N00027694&year=2006
She's very very very connected, particularly to the insurance industry - perhaps that explains her primary stance, eh?
Net Worth: From $14,709,141 to $32,664,002 Ranks 11th among all members of the Senate
(Keeping America's Promise PAC is a John Kerry outfit - one of her top 5 campaign donors- seem to have morphed more recently into Campaign for our Country )
--
What's odd is Arianna, if you ask me- she's unpredictable. Normally I count her as Scaife's um- girl.
She doesn't do anything that isn't good for Claire. She has said before that she didn't think Hillary could win Missouri. She clearly decided to back Obama for her own reasons. Both Wes Clark and Bill Clinton helped her with her campaign to become a senator. Wes made appearances with her and Bill came for a fundraiser that made her campaign some million dollars richer. She's been a surrogate for Obama throughout his campaign. My guess would be that Claire wants something from an Obama presidency. I wouldn't be surprised if she wants to be his veep.
in that job. I'd like to think she'd go after the bad guys if she has that opportunity, including war criminals.
to do the right thing and stand up for Wes?!!
This is tragic, even more than it's disgusting. They might as well tell the country that "...it's not that we (the Dem Party) think it's too hard to demonstrate we have a backbone and integrity, we just don't think having a backbone, or integrity, is very important..."
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
As many of these people, including Jim Webb, that the General endorsed and campaigned for, wholeheartedly, it is quite telling that none are standing up for this man...
Honor and integrity...what a concept
Subject: What a disappointment
to see you just now on MSNBC throw Wes Clark under the bus! Did you not listen to his comments on Face the Nation --in their proper context? It seems that you - along with most of the pundits who want to make news not report it - pick the one sentence Wes repeated from Bob Sheiffer's question and have twisted it all out of proportion. General Clark did NOT denigrate John McCain's patriotism or service IN ANY WAY.
I wonder if you and Barack realize what damage you have done to your own credibility by dissing the best and brightest military/foreign policy/national security spokesman and supporter you have. Today many Obama supporters are withdrawing their support because of your insulting slapdown of the General. Yes, words do matter. Disappointed and disgusted am I.
Yes, saw it. She just repeated the same thing O said -- that no one should criticize the military service of a candidate and that sort of thing should not occur in campaign - blah, blah.
She didn't say a thing to suggest that Wes WAS NOT finding fault with McCain's service and had actually praised it, but was questioning his judgment, and she said not a word to recognize Wes' lifetime of honor and integrity. Either this is planned to try and diminish Wes, or these pols haven't seen the FTN segment and don't know what the hell they are talking about.
Found this on yesterday's MSNBC - our favorite cable defense contractor.... the "diminish" quote is from WaPo- their opinion... not today- but of interest all the same:
========================
BUZZ METER. Jim Webb (D-VA) reportedly was referred to as “Mr. Vice President” by his Senate colleague, Claire McCaskill.
VEEP VETTING. Today’s distancing by Obama of Wes Clark “would seem to diminish his chances of being selected” for the ticket.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/30/1176653.aspx
=======================
Also, I didn't realize she was 'scoring' so high in the Veep race for O either.... that might explain her wanting Wes firmly planted under that big ole bus:
http://another-politics-blog.blogspot.com/2008/06/handicapping-vps-again.html
today according to Political Ticker, taking questions for him submitted on video -
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/01/your-chance-to-quiz-clark/
and the dirt from under the bus, don't forget that Wes still supports obama.
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends. Japanese Proverb
not so sure about the integrity of others. There's a reason I got out of working in politics in the 80's.... at least till WKC came along.
I find it terribly disappointing to find my cynicism about 'politicians' was justified -- I've gotten too accustomed to Wes's example.
that Wes is too honest to be a modern-day politician.
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
and andrea...........I need a drink......THESE PUNDITS NEED TO GO!
Hang in there General
with the nasty stuff thrown at him by Mrs. Greenspan. My favorite was his belly laugh when asked the old VP question. What it means, may depend on the listener, but to me it means he does not want it and is relieved that it will not be offered. How can you offer a VP slot to someone left behind by the freight train!
what shocked me was her closing comments about his keeping his word on his appearance.........THE MAN HAS INTEGRITY, CHARACTER, AND SPEAKS THE TRUTH. So, she expected him to NOT appear because of the media generated flap? I would like to know if O heard the entire segment? or just sound bites. O should be ashamed of himself for doing what he did and chastising Wes in his speech.
is the General dressing down some of these people as he did that FoxNewsPerson, right after the General decided to run in '03. I can't remember the fellows name, but he was left stammering and sputtering.
The General's integrity was in question and he just let lose on the guy...beautiful.
That is exactly what these AndreaMitchelltypes truly need..
Clark: "If the sun is shining and someone asks you if the sun is shining, I suppose you could say, the sky is blue and there are no clouds, but I always try to answer the question asked of me".
Hat tip to Tom Rinaldo for catching it mid-broadcast.
question.
I wonder if the MSM realizes the more they continue to misrepresent Wes' comments, the dumber and more childish they look? Nah...guess not.
;-) GO WES!
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Politicians never answer the question asked. On purpose! They turn the talk back to the point they want to make. That's what distinguishes Wes Clark.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25479549#25479549
UPDATE: Looks like Kat recently posted the video link also.
Post your comments over on her blog link so they'll be on one thread.
Mrs Greenspan floats Wes Clark's statements to Lee Hamilton - who showed his masterful judgment by putting Rove and Condi's good buddy, Zelikow, in charge of the (cough) 9-11 Commission, thereby entrenching their utter lack of transparency. As 9-11 widow Kristin Breitweiser tells it: "Lee Hamilton is largely responsible for the 9/11 Commission's Final Report being a total whitewash." Max Cleland, Richard Clarke and the 9-11 families chimed in with their extreme alarm and disapproval of the obviously dismal appointment choice... but no matter. Zelikow it was to be.
ttp://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_kristen__080404_9_2f11_3a_where_barack_o.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/condis-inside-man/2008/03/14/1205472088777.html?page=2
Hamilton reiterated the "running on his judgment" theme about Obama.... Mitchell is a dog with a bone on this one.
I still relish the fact that Wes Clark remains a stubborn thorn in the side of the corporate press... Makes me so proud!
And I couldn't be more proud of him for telling the truth and sticking to it. What a guy that General is! :)
'safe' to come here once more. Great to see you all back!!
Yesterday, I spotted this blogging up here in Canada and I thought, no I swore under my breath, can't they leave Bill Clinton alone, hasn't he got the right to be angrier than spit? I am not surprised if this is a true report of what BC is really thinking and I hope he doesn't back down either. I hope he grabs this wet-behind-the-ears kid running for President and helps him understand the real lay of the land because he apparently can't see to well down in that trench with his arms over his head and hands over his ears.
I too hope Bill doesn't back down. Not only was he labeled a racist, among other things, but his entire presidency was constantly lumped in with the 2 Repub presidents before and after him. Why should he be anything other than disgusted and pissed?
Good to see you!
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
So good, in fact, I have stayed here a few too many hours already. I want to wish you all the best of luck, in case you all disappear again.:(
I must go. I have to say that this whole scenario, as it is unfolding, leaves me at a complete loss for words.
...but I'm pointing them out because they're worth a look:
NY Times' Zeleny uncritically repeated false charge that Clark "impugn[ed]" McCain's "heroism"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200807010002?f=i_latest
and
Broadcast networks falsely suggested that Clark criticized McCain's service
http://mediamatters.org/items/200807010001?
I am probably hoping in vain that the producers of the afternoon punditry blah-blah-blah read Media Matters, but it sure would be nice.
Dear General Clark,
Please don't take this letter the wrong way, for I am a great admirer of your service to our country, and all the hard work you do for candidates running for all kinds of political offices across the country, too. I've gotta say that it's killing me to see you on T.V., particularly over the last few days, defending what you said about Senator McCain, specifically that (and I'm paraphrasing at this point)crashing a navy jet doesn't make you qualified to be President. I understand that you've said this before, and you've just repeated it when you were reminded of the statement. Nonetheless, when I heard it, it didn't lessen the gasp I let out, for not only was it a disrespectful statement directed toward your fellow Vietnam veteran, but toward a war hero that endured YEARS of the most unspeakable acts of torture while serving our great country. You were quick to jump on that SO unworthy man's bandwagon (meaning stupid Sen. Obama)after Hillary suspended her campaign to the point that you managed to throw yourself on a landmine for this guy, unwittingly or not, as you've become another water-carrier for him. Shouldn't his actions over the last few news cyclces tell you something? He's thrown you to the wolves by using you and other people by spreading negativity on his behalf while he turns around and says that he 'doesn't agree' with what his supporters (like you) says, thus he comes out smelling like a fricking rose, and leaves YOU holding the bag, and also makes YOU look like the bad guy. Please, don't take any more shots for that guy--he is TOTALLY unworthy of you and your devotion. He'll end up losing in November anyway, for a Hispanic woman like myself who's heart was broken the day Hillary bowed out of the presidential race, will vote for McCain in November. The closer the fall approaches, we'll all see how much the Hispanic base AND the woman voter base will come out for McCain, and all the pollsters in the land who claim to know more than us mere mortals will be spinning like tops, not knowing what to do or say. Distance yourself from that man NOW, for he has already begun distancing himself from YOU.
airtime to respond to the attacks on him, I'm just getting angrier by the second that he's being attacked in the first place!
willful stupidity by the media and politicians tends to bring that out in me - especially when it sacrifices the one man who has busted his ass to give the Dems some national security chops, for the politicical gain of the second.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers