nt

n/t

that crossed my mind too. I'm sure the seating isn't an accident. Exactly how much can be read into it, who knows? But the seating arrangements would've been carefully thought out.

_{You'd be taking them to the Better Business Bureau if you bought a washing machine the way we went into the war in Iraq. Wes Clark, CNN Aug 17 2003}

(((_in_Sydney)))

great to 'see' you!

_{You'd be taking them to the Better Business Bureau if you bought a washing machine the way we went into the war in Iraq. Wes Clark, CNN Aug 17 2003}

aren't most things like this determined by rank?

In search of a signature....

Barbara, are you suggesting that Clark was the rankest of all? (Sorry...it's late and I'm over-Russerted.)

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!

the way I would put that. :)

How many retired military in the room "out-ranked" him?

I believe.

"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."

Gen. Omar Bradley

from politico and Obama '08 is here if you missed it:

http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/15834

And duck.

I stand corrected!

Here is another.

And his body language towards Obama with head tilt and eyes looking away does not seem enthusiastic. I'd interpret it as he is unsure of something. Whether that's Obama or something else, I have no idea, or even if such an interpretation is correct.

I'm just saying how it looks to me, not that that is the correct interpretation.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.

Go to bed. ;)

about these photos.

"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau

He's wondering if anyone else in the room has been briefed on Roswell and if so, why has he been left in the dark as to why these intergalactic species had sent the neocons here to destroy planet Earth

that interpretation from.

Pained? He looks relaxed and cheerful to me.

And in the other photo in the thread where you the he looks distant he just appears to have eye contact with someone in the "audience" -- which I'm assuming is made up of journalists.

_{You'd be taking them to the Better Business Bureau if you bought a washing machine the way we went into the war in Iraq. Wes Clark, CNN Aug 17 2003}

They are frozen moments of time, while people's interactions are dynamic. You would have to have a video to see how they interacted in this encounter.

Does anyone really think Bush will catch bin Ladin?

And I would say the man himself said the meeting went very well.

Come on Larry, give us a little more than that...is that all he said?

You know how we Clarkies are...we want it all.

:D

I know these two men can work well together.

---------------------

I am asking you to come together and make sure Barack Obama is our next president. This is a critical mission. - Wes Clark

went well; I don't know the purpose of the meeting, except for photo op purposes, but a room with that many flag officers in it, set in the configuration shown in the photos, is not going to be much of a place for serious discussion. Would be nice to know who the rest of the officers were.

Maybe there were other smaller meetings??

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb

Donjo,
When I first saw these photos yesterday, I had the same reaction. I just didn't (and still don't) see a happy or relaxed Wes Clark. I've been looking at him, both in person and many photos over the past 5 years, and there is restraint and hesitation in his face and his body language. Who knows-maybe he's reacting to McPeak.

I thought he looked "amused." But you may have a point about McPeak. I don't think there's any love lost between those two.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!

1996 Oregon state chairman for Bob Dole for President Tony McPeak? 2000 co-chair of Oregon veterans for Bush Tony McPeak? The same Tony McPeak who supported Howard Dean in 2004 and made some real asshole statements about Wes? THAT Tony McPeak? Yeah, it's gotta be weird for Wes to be sharing the same photo op with him.

I met him when he came here to speak to the Colorado Veterans for Kerry group. I didn't enjoy the experience.

With regard to those "asshole statements," it's not hard to figure. His entire physical being is consumed by that particular part of the anatomy.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!

t-shirt to the USAF? And those short lived Delta Airlines/Star Trek/RalphKramdenBusDriver officer's dressies?  I'll stop now.

"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."

Gen. Omar Bradley

and as a kid, I had it pretty bad for Alice Kramden.

"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."

Gen. Omar Bradley

must have been, I'd venture to say

and respectfully of course - but I am glad, very glad that Sen. Obama and Gen. Clark are communicating. I'm sure Wes will do his best to get Hugh Shelton to come aboard Sen. Obama's campaign, if he hasn't done so already. Now somebody from Barack's campaign needs to consult with Pat Lang. Nobody knows the ME like Col. Lang. We really need that George Marshall vision type thing and Wes and Pat are probably the principle purveyors of that kind of brilliant thinking.

"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."

Gen. Omar Bradley

I agree about Pat Lang.

But I rather doubt Wes doesn't experience extreme "weirdness" when it comes to his former boss, Hugh Shelton, who not only preemptively and prematurely retired him from his Army career without his knowledge, but went on to baselessly and publicly denigrate his integrity during the the '04 primary, even to the point where Milosevic quoted Shelton's remarks against Clark as a witness at his trial in the Hague.

Granted, Wes might move Shelton to get on board, but I personally have no desire whatsoever to see Hugh Shelton invited onto Barack Obama's National Security Advisory Panel. I'll take Tony over Hugh, any old day.

...but that's just me

and a few other folks

Hope you've been well.

Including the possiblity he may just have had something bad to eat. Also, the point about video being more revealing is a good one. Hard to tell from still shots, and dangerous to draw any conclusions. It's just impossible to tell why, but he certainly does not look happy. I'd describe it more as a concerned, pained, and/or worried look for whatever unknown reasons.

Edit: Just watched the short video segment Kat provided and now I think he just looks like someone invited to a Party where he doesn't know anyone, a little awkward at first and wondering how things are going to play out perhaps.

Or, I could be totally out of the park with that interpretation as well. The video definitely looks better than the still shots, though.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.

Four years, huh? That's a long time... and I'm sure that you, like me and most of the people here, have memories of that wonderful feeling of hope.

I'm feeling it again, these days.

It's great to see you!

He is getting great reviews now over at barackobama.com
and I will be inviting more from Obama Nation to come over here.

Wes's attacks on McCain have been forceful and spot on.  No other spokesman has the same effect.

At MSNBC they are starting their Veepstakes again.

The format in 2004 was much better, and I have complained.
As I recall, Wes rose from 2nd place behind Edwards, to 1st place for the final 7 weeks.

It was devastating when Edwards was picked over Wes at the end. It was equivalent to Clinton supporters pushing her for VP behind the scenes. Obama won't succumb to that type of pressure.

In this years MSNBC Veepstakes, Wes is in same bracket as Hillary and Biden and Webb are in same bracket. This format will knock out some strong candidates.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24764369/

Everyone should check out www.BarackObama.com and tell people about "securingamerica.com". There will need to be an overhaul of Obama's website soon and there are many ideas that could be learned from this site.

I read them that way too.

Clark wasn't in the National Security Working Group, but he was included in the group of flag officers. I don't get your rationale.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!

How've you been?

I hope you are as well

and massa as chief of staff?

[oops, I've thought of massa as WES' chief of staff forever!]

I guess from my point of view the war on Iraq and foreign affairs are secondary. What is primary is how did Americans allow this to happen? We can blame the weakling Courts, Congress and the Press for Gitmo, torture, the repeal of habeas corpus and this phony invasion but 75% endorsed this. They may be tired of the war, but Romney will be back either as VP or as Presidential candidate in 2012 to restore the Bush vision. This is where I see General Clark as important and always have. You cannot abdicate your principles then go back to them after the moral crisis. The Iraq war was evidence that we as Americans are no longer guided by republican government and principles; like Sarko and the new Euro Bush Souls, we are collaborators. It is in human nature to justify our failings. Little wars lead to bigger wars shortly after as they empower the citizenry to fight; the Mexican War led to the Civil War. WW I empowered Hitler and Germany in the 1940s. We are now in the gulf between wars perhaps, waiting for Mitt Romney to fulfill Bush’s great vision. I saw only Wesley Clark as standing out in opposition at the very beginning. Others, like Howard Dean opposed, but it is one thing when a northern New England Governor opposes – we oppose everything – and a General with the status of Wesley Clark. This is just beginning and it will be a fight for the restoration of the soul of America. Bush is widely expected to convert to Catholicism after his shift. This is a weird twist in the Protestant Ethic (speaking as a Catholic). I half expect he sees himself now as eventually being canonized; just as he and his father saw them selves as Adams and son. And although it is pathological, I see it not an impossible vision. Romney and Clark could fight this out in single warrior combat for the American soul.

eh, Mr. Q?

up here in Vermont people have bumper stickers with the date of Bush's last day in office. But you can't do that; you can't let them take it and just wait till it passes. If yo do, it won't pass. You have to take it back from them or you lose your character as true citizens. You have to demand it. America's fate could well hang between Wes Clark and Mitt Romney.

and waiting another ???? years for Wes to be front and center really bothers me. On the other hand, I don't trust that many people realize how much work has to be done.

At the moment, and for the last several months, I've been staying with my dad in florida; mother recently entered a nursing home. SO I hear a lot of 'senior' gossip. not encouraging.

If not VP, he will be what I wrote in one of my first articles about him - "the bull dog heart of a new Democratic Party."

Any evidence of progress other than his day to day work, of which we're aware???

Who is anxious???? ;-)

Obama has some unique and enlightened perspectives but it is beginning now to be able to see at what every day level of decision making he will channel - that is, Sebelius, Webb, Gore, Clark would all be interesting VPs but each of those four would make fully different Cabinet packages and unique administrations. Obama is spending a lot of time these last two weeks with Tom Daschle and Tom is said to be pitching heavily several including Wesley Clark. I don't see Webb getting it - a great and interesting man but with the artist's heart and too unpredictable for the management quality - which I see as very, very high given Obama's campaign to date - that Obama will demand. A Webb decision would not fit Obama's decision - making pattern and it would be too many coyotes on one ticket. A Gore VP would be an emergency "save the environment" team - we may need that but we're not going to do it. Obama will demand management skills of the highest level. That is Clark, Sebelius, Mark Warner (Ed Rendell also a possibility - he was a great hero in Philly; I covered his first race for mayor - but two candidates from northern big cities? Clark as Southern karma.) Warner says no, he won't take it. Sebelius is possibly the best manager of a middle-size state. And she has a way nice Kansas, heartland personality. But we need management plus; Clark has First Tier management but can bring an interior cohesion to the party and the country that the others can't. His work in '06 was important in giving the Democrats a new attitude. Clark fits Obama's recent decision-making patterns. His Cabinet will be mainstream - Tom Daschle - but with a positive new attitude and Clark adds real cache to it so he is currently my first guess since the naming of the National Security Study Group thing.

I believe that the most important role in managing the government outside of the President itself is the White House Chief of Staff. I don't see the VP, no matter who it is, as key in that role.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!

he'll pick the guy from Montana or Clare McCaskill, Senator from Missouri.

Yes, he has been working with a Republican Assembly, but Ed has gone overboard with spending and taxing. His focus seems to be all on money and none at all on quality.

He signed the infamous pay-raise legislation and was pretty damn cocky about it afterward.

His recent priorities - leasing the Turnpike to a foreign company (bad idea) and reform of the dog laws to rid Pennsylvania of our reputation for puppy mills (good idea) leave out the basic "get stuff done" aspect of governing.

No, I would not want Fast Eddie on the Democratic ticket.

Just my opinion:)

"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau

'This campaign presents the potential for a new cycle of American history.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/opinion/25hart.html?em&ex=1214539200&en=d4c56389bdfc6262&ei=5087%0A

he cites Emerson and Schlessinger, but the cycles of history theme is most accurately described by William Strauss and Neil Howe in their books "The Fourth Turning" and "Millennials." Specifically, the authors re-animated a theory of Roman historians which describes a four-generation post-war period - an 80 year-period which Roman historians called a saeculum. The culture breaks and turns at the beginning of the fourth generation, which is now. Before General Clark entered the '04 race a friend and I each sent Gary Hart a very small amount of cash and asked him to run for President and asked him to come up here to NH to speak. He came up and spoke at Amherst and U NH and perfectly and in hindsight, with complete accuracy, outlined what would happen if the Bush administration invaded Iraq. A few months later he announced that he would not run for President and listen to this: He sent our money back! An example of cycles of history can be seen when W.J. Cash, from Shelby, NC, wrote a book called "The Mind of the South" in 1941, a criticism of the Confederate mentality which lingered in the segregated South. He fully expected to be denounced from every quarter. But he wasn't. His book was favorably reviewed by 50 newspaper editors in the south and became a turning point in Southern history writing, opening the gate for people like C. Vann Woodward and other great historians. The South had largely gotten past the Confederacy by 1941 and was ready to move on. We are at that point right now with WW II history and its afterglow, Cold War. The country is ready to move away from seeing Russia as our enemy and viewing our trials as all across the Atlantic. The fourth-generation simply doesn't understand. China is rising; India is rising. They present the world ahead and cannot be viewed as enemies. McCain is not ready; this creates the dangerous nostalgico condition that Spain suffered with Franco - Bush is a nostalgico President and guilty of the greatest of all war crimes and the mother of all war crimes; war for the sake of imitating valor. Bush's roll in the cycles of history is as a gatekeeper but his roll is to close the gate that Ronald Reagan opened. Bush closes the door on the post-Victorian century. The new gate and the new century opens now with Obama. Now we begin to look East as well as West.