Will Russ Feingold make an endorsement?
Submitted by CarolNYC on January 17, 2008 - 6:45am.
2008 | Hillary Clinton | Russ Feingold
Interesting interview in the Appleton Post-Crescent here.
On whether he'll make an endorsement in the Feb. 19 Wisconsin primary
Probably not. I'm having a hard time deciding between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, as are many people. Those are the two I take the most seriously.
I go back and forth, to be honest with you. I'm torn on this whole issue of who's more likely to be progressive and really seek change vs. who's ready to do the job today. It really is a true dilemma in my mind.
Nice to see he's giving Hillary a good look rather than just dismissing her, although he probably won't endorse. I respect Russ a lot.
Then there's this doozy about Edwards:
The one that is the most problematic is (John) Edwards, who voted for the Patriot Act, campaigns against it. Voted for No Child Left Behind, campaigns against it. Voted for the China trade deal, campaigns against it. Voted for the Iraq war … He uses my voting record exactly as his platform, even though he had the opposite voting record.
When you had the opportunity to vote a certain way in the Senate and you didn't, and obviously there are times when you make a mistake, the notion that you sort of vote one way when you're playing the game in Washington and another way when you're running for president, there's some of that going on.
Tell it, Russ!
Obama's vote for reauthorizing the Patriot Act would rule out any endorsement from Russ...
FRENCH ISLAND, Wis. — U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold asked for La Crosse’s help Saturday in fighting against the USA Patriot Act.
At a listening session with about 50 constituents at Campbell Town Hall, Feingold was asked about who among the Democrats he supports for president.
Feingold, the only senator to vote against the original Patriot Act, said he doesn’t know who he’s going to vote for, and hasn’t figured out who most shares his opposition to the law, which he believes takes away Americans’ civil rights.
“You can help me with this because they like to come to La Crosse,” Feingold said. “Put the heat on them about this. Make them make a commitment when they’re in this town. Not just all this happy talk about we’re going to change America and this and that.”
“None of them were there at the time of the Patriot Act. They all bought into this notion” because of the 9/11 attacks, Feingold said.
Rest of article: http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2007/12/02/news/z03feingold02.txt
“You said you would vote against the Patriot Act, then you came to the Senate, you voted for it.”
Hillary Clinton on Saturday, January 5th, 2008 in a debate in Manchester, N.H.
He fought to improve it, then voted for it
Half-True
Sen. Hillary Clinton, trying to retrieve momentum after losing the Iowa caucuses, went after Sen. Barack Obama in a Jan. 5, 2008, debate in New Hampshire and charged him with being a flip-flopper.
“You’ve changed positions within three years on ... a range of issues that you put forth when you ran for the Senate,” Clinton said. “You said you would vote against the Patriot Act, then you came to the Senate, you voted for it.”
Clinton questioned how serious Obama is about scrapping the 2001 antiterrorism law, noting that he voted to extend it in early 2006 after pledging as a Senate candidate to scrap or replace the law.
A closer examination reveals that while Clinton’s charge is technically correct, Obama went further than she did in trying to expand civil rights guarantees and give Democrats more chances to change the law.
As a candidate for the Senate in 2003, Obama said he supported repealing or replacing the Patriot Act, branding it “shoddy and dangerous” in a response to a National Organization for Women survey of candidates. Obama never got a clear-cut opportunity to make good on the pledge, but was active during a debate in late 2005 and early 2006 on reauthorizing 16 expiring provisions in the law.
House and Senate negotiators had deadlocked for months on whether to include more protections for civil liberties and to impose time limits on some of the most contentious provisions in the sweeping law. After consultations with the White House, Republican chief negotiators presented a compromise that won enough Democratic support to reauthorize the act.
However, Obama and 29 fellow Democrats along with one independent voted against limiting debate in an effort to allow Russ Feingold, D-Wis., the only senator to vote against the original law in 2001, to offer amendments that would have, among other things, put in place stronger judicial reviews of administration actions. It also imposed shorter time limits on so-called “sneak-and-peek” searches, in which law enforcement secretly enters a suspect’s premises without the suspect’s knowledge or permission.
Clinton, in contrast, joined 14 fellow Democrats and all of the Senate’s 55 Republicans in voting to shut off debate and proceed to a final vote on the compromise.
Once Obama’s faction lost the bid to keep the debate going, he voted for the compromise. The final tally was 95-4. Clinton was also among those senators voting yes.
Obama said the final deal was not ideal but was an improvement over earlier Republican proposals. “This compromise does modestly improve the Patriot Act by strengthening civil liberties protections without sacrificing the tools that law enforcement needs to keep us safe,” he said, adding, “I urge my colleagues to continue working on ways to improve the civil liberties protections in the Patriot Act after it is reauthorized.”
So while Obama did vote to reauthorize the Patriot Act, he did so after working to improve the law by expanding civil rights guarantees. We rule Clinton’s statement Half True.
I could get used to hearing. I'm sorry he did not give it a shot. He's about as close to Paul Wellstone as we still have. GAWD, I miss Paul Wellstone! :-(
____________________________________
"...I must emphasize and
explain repeatedly the moral dimensions of all
social life, and point out that morality is, in
fact, hidden in everything..."
- Vaclav Havel
Obama...again we have the WI Gov & Lt. Gov. splitting endorsements...Lawton is for Hillary.
In '04, Doyle backed Kerry after Lawton came out for Wes...
Maybe it's time for the first female Governor of WI, too!!!
...why he thinks that Obama is more progressive. His rhetoric is quite the opposite and his voting record is no more progressive than Hillary's, and in some cases less so...see his vote against interest rate caps and for Cheney's energy bill
I hope Russ...who is one of my favorite Senators....does his homework before taking that leap.
"The Right always knows who its enemies are" Lance Mannion
coming, he is totally clueless about the rest of what's coming. We can't afford to have him be the "decider."
"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothes being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain
I found Roberts link to the Federalist Society on the internets when he was nominated. That was all I needed to know about him not to want him on the court.
in any case, if Toobin proves right.
;)
"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothes being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain
He's young enough to be on the court a very long time. He taught constitutional law, didn't he? Seems like a perfect fit to me. I would like to see another woman on the court as well. No doubt there are many good candidates out there for her to choose from.
Reading the post above about how Obama decided not to vote for Roberts, I sure hope he doesn't get sucked in by Roberts intellect if he does go to the SCOTUS. Personally, I'd love to see Feingold on the SCOTUS. I admire his intellect:)
"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothes being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain
"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothes being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain
--that Obama was considering a YEA vote for Roberts - as reported by the WaPo last year- but was talked out of it in 2005 by his chief of staff Pete Rouse who reminded him it could cripple a future presidential run.
There was a dust up with Armando at Kos about it at the time as well - covered at TalkLeft.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/8/27/13239/5301
Rouse is known for his three decades as a Washington DC insider, beginning in 1971...when he worked as an aide to Senator Tom Daschle, later with Dick Durbin and others.
From WaPo 3 pg article:
___________________________
It was the fall of 2005, and the celebrated young senator -- still new to Capitol Hill but aware of his prospects for higher office -- was thinking about voting to confirm John G. Roberts Jr. as chief justice. Talking with his aides, the Illinois Democrat expressed admiration for Roberts's intellect.
And then Rouse, his chief of staff, spoke up. This was no Harvard moot-court exercise, he said. If Obama voted for Roberts, Rouse told him, people would remind him of that every time the Supreme Court issued another conservative ruling, something that could cripple a future presidential run. Obama took it in.
"Pete's very good at looking around the corners of decisions and playing out the implications of them," Obama said an interview when asked about that discussion. "He's been around long enough that he can recognize problems and pitfalls a lot quicker than others can."
"His familiarity with Washington makes him somebody whose judgment I trust," Obama said.
In November, when more than a dozen advisers met with Obama in Axelrod's Chicago office to discuss running, it was Rouse who had prepared the memos detailing how Obama could win and the pros and cons of running in 2008 versus waiting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/26/AR2007082601446.html?nav=hcmodule
before she elects to post a false comment as a statement of fact?
"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothes being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain
by breaking out a gross of tongue tourniquets. For all of us.
He that plants trees loves others besides himself. ~English Proverb
There was a big kerfluffle at the time at Dkos. Obama posted there at the time about it. I can't seem to find Obama's blog over there as every time I go to Dkos my puter freezes up. Can someone find the link? Thanks.
He that plants trees loves others besides himself. ~English Proverb
Computer problems are preventing me from searching. Dammit.
He that plants trees loves others besides himself. ~English Proverb
Make of it what you will. Seems he was opposed to a filibuster on Roberts.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/30/102745/165/500/153069
He that plants trees loves others besides himself. ~English Proverb
I was surprised by the ferocity of this- fwiw
Lawrence O'Donnell: John Edwards Is A Loser
John Edwards is a loser. He has won exactly two elections in his life and lost 31. Only one of his wins and all of his losses were in presidential primaries and caucuses. He remains perfectly positioned to continue to lose with a Kucinich-like consistency. Nothing but egomania keeps Edwards in the race now. All presidential candidates are egomaniacs but some of them have party status worth preserving that forces them to drop out when they hit the wall. A loser like Edwards has no status or dignity to lose. Campaigning and losing is his life. So, he will continue his simple-minded, losing campaign and deny Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton the one-on-one contest they deserve.
If John Edwards stays in the race, he might, in the end, become nothing other than the Southern white man who stood in the way of the black man. And for that, he would deserve a lifetime of liberal condemnation.
Maybe Edwards is already not a factor in the campaign because Edwards voters would split evenly between Senators Obama and Clinton if Edwards dropped out. But we'll never know unless Edwards does the right thing and gets out of the way of the only two candidates who have a chance to get the nomination.
The white male monopoly on the Democratic nomination has finally come to an end. Someone has to tell John Edwards.
Not even I, an inveterate Edwards basher, would say things like this!
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
but I would. :) And frankly, it does my heart good to see this sort of thing in print. Btw.....did you know he's the son of a mill worker?
"A loser like Edwards has no status or dignity to lose." Ouch! That IS ferocious.
"The mark of leadership is not to standup when everybody is standing, but rather to actually stand up when no one else is standing" - Pulitzer Prize winning author Samantha Power, introducing Gen Clark
good find!
I find this part interesting:
"If John Edwards stays in the race, he might, in the end, become nothing other than the Southern white man who stood in the way of the black man."
Interesting how he phrases it that way. How about pointing out that he stands in the way of the first possible woman president as well?
It's been interesting to me lately how the press is really hammering the racial aspect of the contest, and almost totally ignoring the sexism.
it's really over the top in a number of ways. I suppose it's an altogether over the top political season? Weird. somw really has no natural constituency that I can see. But there it is- the spoiler card.
Me, I believe there is some confusion in the land about the difference the nascent beginnings of a movement & certain quests for political offices.
aha : update
I see from Gordon's post, it's about the delegates & edwards as kingmaker
John Edwards: POWER Broker Submitted by gordonsuber on January 17, 2008 - 3:19am.
Of the 4,367 delegates to the Democratic National Covnention in Denver, 3,515 will come from the 50 states, mostly via the primary/caucuses, and 852 will be so-called Super Delegates who can do what they want.
If John Edwards participates in all caucuses and primaries, gathering just 15% of the vote, that will give him 527 delegates (3,515 x 15%) = 527
With the possibility that neither Obama nor Clinton will have the requisite number of delegates to secure the nomination by convention time, Edwards could be the power broker who decides the nominee.
From the New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. 2002
FAUSTIAN BARGAIN
(FOW- stee-uhn) Faust, in the legend, traded his soul to the devil in exchange for knowledge. To "strike a Faustian bargain" is to be willing to sacrifice anything to satisfy a limitless desire for knowledge or power.
************************
Earlier today, I started to write an essay discussing my dismay that the most powerful African-America in Congress, and the richest (thus powerful) African-American businessman had spewed personal invectives in an attempt to destroy the most celebrated political African-American since Martin Luther King.
After working on it for some time, stopping periodically to tamp down my anger and regain my composure, I ran across the following writing by Margaret Carlson.
Contrary to the title of Carlson's piece, Barack Hussein Obama will not fold.
There are many powerful Caucasian-Americans who have endorsed Obama. Some from the most unlikely places.
Governors Janet Napolitano of Arizona, Tim Kane of Virginia and Jim Doyle of Wisconsin. Senators Kent Conrad of North Dakota, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Tim Johnson of South Dakota, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, and John Kerry of Massachusetts, as well as former senators Gary Hart of Colorado and Bill Bradley of New Jersey.
Endorsements from these Washington Insiders, some from the most Republican and conservative states in our union, say a great deal about The Clintons and their campaign.
Barack Obama's demeanor and response to the scurrilous comments by Clinton operatives has led me to a greater resolve in my support of him.
*******************************************
Hillary Pulls Race Card and Obama May Fold
By Margaret Carlson
Jan. 17 (Bloomberg) -- At approximately 6 p.m. on Jan. 15, three hours before a Kumbaya interlude at the Democratic presidential debate in Las Vegas, I saw Al Sharpton defending Senator Barack Obama from charges of youthful drug abuse.
As we all know by now, the accusation arises from Obama's own admission in his modern Horatio Alger tale, ``Dreams From My Father,'' published long before he became a presidential candidate, that he tried cocaine as a teenager.
The hoopla over this has validated the judgment of George W. Bush eight years ago to refuse to answer questions about his own alleged drug use, which many believe continued well beyond his teen years. This is why honesty isn't considered the best policy by political consultants. But I digress.
Sharpton has done things to redeem himself in recent years, but his presence is a one-way ticket back to Tawana Brawley, boycotts, shakedowns and good old-fashioned, in-your-face confrontational race-based politics. Seeing him in that box on TV, I realized that the Clintons had done what they needed to do to stop Obama's historic surge in its tracks.
From the start of his career, Obama wanted, and needed, to remove the race card from the political deck. While it isn't clear from whose sleeve the card was pulled, it is likely it wasn't from the person with the most to lose.
If Hillary Clinton's campaign had taken only one shot at Obama, it might have been blown off as a mistake. But four shots constitutes a pattern, with Clinton's former New Hampshire chairman, Bill Shaheen, Representative Charles Rangel, Clinton pollster Mark Penn and Black Entertainment Television founder Bob Johnson all getting into the act.
Going Too Far
Surrogates don't take printed instructions, but neither do they want to upset the candidate they've traveled to the hinterlands to please. And Penn isn't even a surrogate. He's the campaign's top strategist.
In the middle of the drug pile-on, Clinton, desperate after her Iowa defeat, went too far when trying to imprint the message that Obama is all talk and no action. She infelicitously compared Martin Luther King Jr. to former President Lyndon Johnson.
``Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964,'' she said.
In fairness to the Clintons, even masters of the game trip up when the crown believed to be theirs slips out of reach. They had just hours to convince folks in New Hampshire that the guy who Iowans had fallen in love with was wrong for them.
Red-Faced Rant
Bill Clinton, in particular, was furious at Hillary's loss, indulging in the kind of red-faced rants vividly described in George Stephanopoulos's tale of White House life, ``All Too Human.''
How dare this upstart backbencher steal this election from Hillary! The press? What a lazy bunch of enablers swallowing this &%*# fairy tale, all this hooey about what we share being so much greater than our differences.
Any thought that Bill would be less active in New Hampshire was shelved. In 1992 Hillary helped Bill become the Comeback Kid in the Granite State after a lounge singer gave a press conference about an affair. Now it was his chance to return the favor.
But they were a bit off in choosing to mention an African- American idealist (King as Obama) in juxtaposition with a tough pragmatist who can get things done (LBJ as herself). The two campaigns fanned the flames and cable TV poured on the kerosene, booking the usual suspects to chew it all over. By Monday morning, the Democrats were in danger of becoming as divided as Republicans.
Convenient Cease-fire
A cease-fire initiated by Obama was formalized into a peace agreement during a love fest at the debate. And why not? For Clinton's campaign, it was Mission Accomplished, intentional or not. Obama was now the black candidate. There had been minimal blowback and only a minor casualty (Shaheen resigned).
For Obama, he lost the essence of his candidacy as the first black man to run as himself. Once the race card is on the table, no matter who puts it there, it's impossible to put it back up anyone's sleeve. Obama may look back on the first two weeks of 2008 as the time when he lost the nomination to Clinton.
At the height of the controversy on Sunday, Clinton repeated her paean to King from her book ``Living History.'' She'd been taken to hear ``this phenomenon known as Dr. King'' by her youth minister and remembered his plea to awaken to ``the great revolution that the civil rights pioneers were waging.''
No one's doubting Clinton's belief in equality, but however much she was moved, Hillary became a Goldwater Girl. And Senator Barry Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Her journey to embrace civil rights is proof that anyone can grow up. But maybe not to be president.
(Margaret Carlson, author of ``Anyone Can Grow Up: How George Bush and I Made It to the White House'' and former White House correspondent for Time magazine, is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are her own.)
To contact the writer of this column: Margaret Carlson in Washington at
Last Updated: January 17, 2008 00:18 EST
What are we supposed to take away from this exactly? It's really hard to tell through the foaming, blind hatred of all things Clinton.
That Obama's self-admitted early drug use & the race card will never, never, never be used against him should be become the nominee twenty times worse than what any Democrat could or would possibly throw at him now in the course of a primary? But that Hillary Clinton's once Goldwater girl status should prevent her from ever becoming President? How absurd this can possibly get?
Isn't a primary designed to road test candidates- did you really think after all your years of watching politics that it suddenly became less than a blood sport? I don't want to be forced to watch Barack Obama run this gauntlet untested in the GE!!!!!!!!!
Please remember that our opponents are those who put pictures of Vietnam veteran double amputees up on a billboard juxtaposed with images of Osama bin Laden & Saddam Hussein. They tanked John McCain in SC by suggesting he had an illegitimate "black" baby (he wonderfully had adopted not to mention the thousand other things they did simultaneously:
McCain wiki:
The battle between Bush and McCain for South Carolina has entered American political lore as one of the nastiest, dirtiest, and most brutal ever. On the one hand, Bush switched his label for himself from "compassionate conservative" to "reformer with results", as part of trying to co-opt McCain's popular message of reform. On the other hand, a variety of business and interest groups that McCain had challenged in the past now pounded McCain with negative ads. The day that a new poll showed McCain five points ahead in the state, Bush allied himself on stage with a marginal and controversial veterans activist named J. Thomas Burch, who accused McCain of having "abandoned the veterans" on POW/MIA and issues: "He came home from Vietnam and forgot us." Incensed, McCain ran ads accusing Bush of lying and comparing Bush to Bill Clinton which Bush complained was "about as low a blow as you can give in a Republican primary." But that was not the worst. A mysterious semi-underground campaign began against McCain, delivered by push polls, faxes, e-mails, flyers, and the like, and comprising a series of smears: most famously, that he had fathered a black child out of wedlock (a hurtful reference to the McCains' dark-skinned daughter Bridget, adopted from Bangladesh, and thought to be an especially effective slur in a Deep South state where race was still central), but also that his wife Cindy was a drug addict, that he was a homosexual, that he was a "Manchurian Candidate" traitor or mentally unstable from his North Vietnam POW days. The Bush campaign strongly denied any involvement with these attacks; Bush said he would fire anyone who ran defamatory push polls. Above ground, Bush mobilized the state's evangelical voters, and conservative über-broadcaster Rush Limbaugh entered the fray supporting Bush and going on at length about how McCain was a favorite of liberal Democrats. With three days to go, McCain shut down his negative ads against Bush and tried to stress a positive image. McCain lost South Carolina on February 19, with 42 percent of the vote against Bush's 53 percent, allowing Bush to regain the momentum. Polls swung in Bush's favor; by not having accepted federal matching funds for its campaign, Bush had unlimited money to spend on advertisements, while McCain was near his limit.
While South Carolina was known for legendary hard-knuckled political consultant Lee Atwater and rough elections, this had been more: Michael Graham, a native writer, radio host, and political operative, would say "I have worked on hundreds of campaigns in South Carolina, and I've never seen anything as ugly as that campaign."
Unfortunately, these disgusting creatures still prosper among us!!!
If BO's team does not address the issues race seems to raise in this sadly hyper race conscious, almost caste based system that we inhabit - how will his candidacy fare further down the road? I'm getting more confused, not less & I am just hating the injection of this issue into the democratic quest for the presidency. I'm already tired of this.
Whither Iraq? The Presidency is not a ministry.
why John McCain had to side with George Bush in recent years.
That was a brutal campaign - South Carolina.
What made him change? Didn't honor and integrity mean anything?
you & I were standing right next to each other when Wes Clark said, "Don't you talk to me about John McCain. John McCain sold out; he crossed the line."
Apparently, John McCain's memory is a little bit fuzzy when it comes to his 2000 campaign.
"We need memory." -- Bluemoon
Congressman Rangel did a complete mea-culpa to Nora O'Donnell on MSNBC, and a short-time ago, CNN reported that Robert Johnson sent a letter of apology to Barack Obama, plus Johnson has reached out by phone to Obama.
Bluemoon writes: "can we step away from West Side Story for a moment..."
GS: In a minute. I'll never forget West Side Story ! My first Broadway play. I was a stary-eyed six-teen year old watching Tony fall in love with Maria. When they danced, it was as if their bodies were one. And four years later, the movie -- with a smoldering Rita Morena. G-d, they were hot.
Thanks for the memories, Bluemoon.
...winter day in Decemember 2003, when WKC addressed the dozen people in Dixville Notch? If so, remember how dismayed WKC was to learn that all of them were registered Independents, only to be advised that Independents would be able to vote for him on Primary Day 2004.
The Reagan years were cultish and the Dubya years are about "ministry." I've had enough of both. I want competence and someone who can clean up the mess starting on day one. I can't tell you how many times I didn't get a job when I had way more experience and qualifications for the job for it to be given to a less experienced man, because for "a man it's a career. For me (a woman) it's a hobby." I've actually had that said to my face. Then there's the age thing that always comes into it. Barack Obama has acknoweledged in that last debate, that he's going to need a "Dick Cheney." And look who is jumping on a plane to campaign for him in Nevada, John Kerry. What? If it's an Obama/Kerry ticket you think the swifties are going to just sit on their hands? If the Republican ticket is McCain/Lieberman, how do you think that's going to play? You're going to have the war hero and the guy who claims he was a "freedom rider" as to opposition.
I must say I'm sort of surprised at you Gordon. Quoting Margaret Carlson now? I would have thought you one to see thru this media-generated tempest. It only benefits the Republicans.
From NoQuarter:
Back in 2000, Atrios reminds us, it was rumored that then Time columnist Margaret Carlson dated Sen. Fred Thompson. In fact, Sen. Thompson's VP chances were hurt by his liaison with the "too liberal" Ms. Carlson. (And that, kids, is one reason the Shrub selected Dick Cheney, and the rest is history ...)
It was also rumored at the time that Sen. Thompson was "simultaneously involved with another woman." But that didn't stop Margaret Carlson from gushing about her old heartthrob on an earlier Hardball with Chris Matthews:
------------------------------
CARLSON: He does look like the dad. He has everything that Pat says. He‘s handsome, he‘s charming, he sounds like a president, he looks like a president, but Pat says he might not have the fire in the belly. That could help him, not having the hunger, not being willing to do anything could help him. It could help him. And, you know, he’s smart. He’s articulate. He knows his lines. He can hit his mark.
The theme song of Republicans should be “Some Day My Prince Will Come,” and they‘re waiting and they‘re hoping. And so Fred Thompson is not late at all. His moment is here.
MATTHEWS: Some day he will come along. Do you think he‘s coming now?
CARLSON: I think he‘s coming soon
------------------------------------------
Euuwwwwwww!!!!
Carlson also said that Thompson would win a match-up with Hillary Clinton.
“Margaret Carlson! This is treason! Margaret, the sisterhood’s at stake here,” Matthews clowned.
Chris pretended that he was surprised to see Margaret choosing Fred over fellow gal Clinton.
Why are you doing it? Why on earth would you bring it here?
When you saw Wes in NH, did you tell him how hard you are working for Obama while he's busting his chops for Hillary?
Did you tell Wes? What did he say? Did you tell him you like to come on his blog and stir up bad feelings? Inquiring minds....
He that plants trees loves others besides himself. ~English Proverb
...my response to LJM.
From what I read here, any mention, by anyone, of anything positive about Barack Hussein Obama, or negative about Hillary Rodham Clinton is met with vitirol, sometimes the likes of which I have never witnessed.
By-the-way. I had a wonderful conversation with some of the Arkansas Travelers (65 total)who came to NH for Hillary. They were a friendly group, respectful of my ardent and visable support for Obama. One thing I liked about them is that they had a sense of humour.
That is just what I like about Huckabee - as looney as he is theologically, he does have a sense of humor.
"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau
...some time ago that Barack Hussein Obama is my candidate. When WKC came over to shake hands in Dover, NH on January 7th, we exchanged salutations. He was busy working the gym, and I was delighted to see him in action.
Did you see the great picture I posted here of WKC facing the media?
If you are sending letters around suggesting that Hillary Clinton, of all people, is a racist, then you are beyond hope.
You are a lying, scumsucking pig, and Wes Clark would spit on you.
"As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular." - Oscar Wilde
because to me, sendng around a letter accusing Wes' candidate of RACISM, then coming to his board to BRAG about it is beyond the pale. Way, way beyond the pale.
That is one of the nastiest, filthiest, things you can accuse a person of in this country. And yes, I will react to that about the way I would react to someone sending around a letter saying Eric Massa is a pedophile.
I feel the same degree of disgust for the person who would do that.
"As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular." - Oscar Wilde
...direct for his response to your use of words. I will let you know if I hear back.
Incidentally, did you read Eugene Robinson's op-ed piece in The Washington Post this week? If you look it up, I'd suggest you slug down a bottle of Pepto-Bismol beforehand.
if this is really Gordon Suber, WTF has happened to you? You appear to be a shadow of your former self. I almost can't believe it's really you.
and "almost" voted for Roberts.
from WaPo
It was the fall of 2005, and the celebrated young senator -- still new to Capitol Hill but aware of his prospects for higher office -- was thinking about voting to confirm John G. Roberts Jr. as chief justice. Talking with his aides, the Illinois Democrat expressed admiration for Roberts's intellect. Besides, Obama said, if he were president he wouldn't want his judicial nominees opposed simply on ideological grounds.
And then Rouse, his chief of staff, spoke up. This was no Harvard moot-court exercise, he said. If Obama voted for Roberts, Rouse told him, people would remind him of that every time the Supreme Court issued another conservative ruling, something that could cripple a future presidential run. Obama took it in. And when the roll was called, he voted no.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Washington Contact: Robert Gibbs or Tommy Vietor, (202) 228-5511
Illinois Contact: Julian Green (312) 886-3506
Date: January 24, 2006
Obama to Vote No on the Nomination of Judge Alito to the Supreme Court
WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) today released the following statement on the nomination of Judge Samuel Alito Jr. to the United States Supreme Court:
"While I certainly believe that Judge Samuel Alito has the training and the qualifications necessary to serve as a Supreme Court Justice, after a careful review of his record, I simply cannot vote for his nomination.
"The Judicial Branch of our government is a place where any American citizen can stand equal before the eyes of the law. Yet, in examining Judge Alito's many decisions, I have seen extraordinarily consistent support for the powerful against the powerless, for the employer against the employee, for the President against the Congress and the Judiciary, and for an overreaching federal government against individual rights and liberties.
"By ruling this way so many times over a course of so many years, Judge Alito simply does not inspire confidence that he will serve as an independent voice on the U.S. Supreme Court.
"I do hope that if he is confirmed, he proves me wrong. I hope that he will uphold the best traditions of the Supreme Court as a bastion of equality and justice on behalf of every American citizen."
http://obama.senate.gov/press/060124-obama_to_vote_n/index.php
The issue seems to be muddled. Dave Sirota interviewed Obama in June 06, he notes the confusion in pinpointing Barack's judicial stances due to some disparity between actual votes and expressed opinions.
From Sirota:
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For instance, last year he posted a long article on the blog Daily Kos criticizing attacks against lawmakers who voted for right-wing Supreme Court nominee John Roberts--even though Obama himself voted against Roberts.
In January Obama publicly criticized a fledgling effort to filibuster nominee Samuel Alito. Obama actually voted for the filibuster, but his statements helped take the steam out of that effort.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060626/sirota
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We have Air America hosts this past week stating on the air that Hillary voted to confirm Alito and Roberts also --to millions of listeners with no corrections and no conditional "I think, I heard, I believe"s in front of it. Just as fact. Which we know is incorrect.
And it was to explain to the audience why they could not support her as a serious presidential candidate.
We keep each other on our toes!
about Obama, Wellstone and the bankruptcy bill.
...and to think there was a time when I believed every word Sirota typed. But I was young and foolish...haha
"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothes being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain
And you're right, ms in la, I was confused by his speaking out against the filibuster and other comments he made about a president being allowed to get nominations through if the person was qualified.
Teaches me a lesson I should know -- don't post without verifying. Sorry. :/
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
even on this diary, where it really is out of place, IMHO, is pathetic but not surprising, unfortunately.
To get back to the topic of the diary, though, I'm glad to see that Russ, who knows Hillary and has actually worked with her, isn't out there knocking her, but instead saying that he's having a hard time deciding between her and Barack. He chooses her over Edwards which should have some heads out there spinning for starters.
Of course, what do people like Russ and Wes who know her and have worked with her know about Hillary anyway? All of the people bashing her on the internet know SO MUCH more about her than those who've actually known her for years. Sheesh!
I don't think Russ will endorse anyone but boy wouldn't the internet "progressive" heads be exploding all over the place if he ended up endorsing Hillary? Before you can blink an eye, they'd be throwing old Russ under the bus where they've already thrown Senator McGovern, RFK Jr, our good General and anyone else who dares see good in Senator Clinton. Oy! Politics!
"The mark of leadership is not to standup when everybody is standing, but rather to actually stand up when no one else is standing" - Pulitzer Prize winning author Samantha Power, introducing Gen Clark
the O fans left, so maybe that will stop the Hillary bashing? One by one Clarkie/Clinton supporters are being driven away. Two more today. Congrats guys. If you're intent is to have this place shut down, you're well on the way to achieving it.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
bashing that you refer to. It's easy for me to stay calm and cool here because I just don't have a favorite to support, but I think many things are being taken too seriously and everyone is just too sensitive these days.
I see that MS has taken a time-out to regroup, but who else has left today?
"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau
terms. Didn't mention this particular thread.
The other person is me. There is a dark energy lurking here that makes it not a comfortable place to be anymore.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
I'm feeling really great because I have a few days off work, but I hate to hear that you (and MS) are not feeling so comfortable.
I think the atmosphere going on here now is just the great Indecision. We do need a combined purpose for being. I'm convinced once the primaries are over; this will be a better place.
"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau
...that neither party should hold the Presidency based on supporters ripping each other apart. Can't wait to see what happens at the Conventions without a clear winner going in. And I really can't believe the Democrats taking the media bait and allowing this racism stuff to blow up in their faces.
Bloomberg/Hagel 2008
They can take Ed off our hands; he has been good for nothing except giving taxbreaks to Comcast.
"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau
...it may be more about them than Wes Clark at this point.
"The Right always knows who its enemies are" Lance Mannion
It's a mess, isn't it?
And this was meant to be a positive blog (a respected Senator like Russ having trouble deciding between the two frontrunners, not because both are flawed but because he finds something to recommend each of them) with a bit of a dig at Edwards. (Sorry Edwards folks.)
I mostly just try to stay out of all of the mess, here and elsewhere on the internet, and just post a positive thing or two about Wes and/or Hillary here or there once in a while but there are certainly some who come here looking for a fight and who aren't happy unless they succeed in finding one.
It's disheartening but for the most part I just try to ignore them...I just hate politics. I think I am just an anarchist at heart. That's what I used to call myself in my younger days. :)
"The mark of leadership is not to standup when everybody is standing, but rather to actually stand up when no one else is standing" - Pulitzer Prize winning author Samantha Power, introducing Gen Clark
<----------- Over there
(Always wanted to do that cool arrow thingy y'all do :) )
Clark Democrats for Hillary Gear. Check it out, yo.
We Hil(l)arys know what we are talking about...wanna make something of it? ;-)
You gotta love, Russ...he says what he means AND means what he says!